Mayor Rob Ford's Toronto

[Juan_Lennon416]

Wrongo bongo. Multiple independent sources made a claim that has not been refuted with proof. Bliar's statement is weasel-worded to the extreme and appears as though it would crumble under cross examination (You say the word "Bitches" was not used. How about the word "Bitch"?).

The only way to clear this up is to release the tapes. What's wrong, Fatty Fraud, dontcha wanna clear your good name?

Bongo? Fatty Fraud? Too difficult to make a point without name calling?

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Right. Ford admits he lost his cool and admits he did swear, so for this reason alone he doesn't want tapes released that would (further) tarnish his rep. If the police chief can't be trusted, then the CBC needs to prove their claims. Not only would they be proven right, but they would also be proving the police chief lied - an equally large story that you'd think they would like to expose if true, no? I think the only thing one can conclude is that they can't, so they should retract.

Your argument is not cogent. If someone has proof that the CBC's police sources are lying, they need to make that evidence public so that the CBC can investigate. Bliar cannot say "the tapes don't say that" without proving what, in fact, the tapes do say. Put aside his questionable personal credibility, his argument is, by itself, without merit. He can either provide actual evidence or he cannot. If the CBC's sources lied, then let's see the evidence of their lies.

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Too difficult to make a point without name calling?

The point was made. The name calling stands by itself and is well-deserved. Politicians who routinely call other people names do not get the courtesy of being referenced by their actual names. Why not address my point, or are you incapable of doing so?

[spider]

Journalists are not required to reveal sources, and rightfully so, but their reputation as a news source is on the line.
They better be right more often than wrong or believable, "government sources reveal that the earth is flat" will not probably appear in your newspaper anytime soon for obvious reasons even though it is attributed to a reliable source.

I am a little concerned that some on this thread feel that the onus is on the accused to prove their innocence.

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Journalists are not required to reveal sources, and rightfully so, but their reputation as a news source is on the line.
They better be right more often than wrong or believable, "government sources reveal that the earth is flat" will not probably appear in your newspaper anytime soon for obvious reasons even though it is attributed to a reliable source.

I am a little concerned that some on this thread feel that the onus is on the accused to prove their innocence.

"Accused"? Has anyone been charged with a crime? The irony of Fatty Fraud crying to the heavens about false accusations is a little much. Fuck him. He's a scumbag and a proven, serial liar. He deserves not even the slightest bit of respect, and even less benefit of doubt.

[Marko]

I am a little concerned that some on this thread feel that the onus is on the accused to prove their innocence.

It's because of who the "accused" is, in this case. My hunch is that if it involved say, David Miller, they would be expecting more of the CBC and not vice versa.


...and proof that it is indeed because it's Rob Ford:

Fuck him. He's a scumbag and a proven, serial liar. He deserves not even the slightest bit of respect, and even less benefit of doubt.

[EMP1729]

Let's see if Mr. Ford decides to sue CBC for slander or libel, I forget which one. I doubt he will, only because the actual contents of the tapes will have to be released, and whatever he actually said is unflattering.

In any case, why should Rob Ford release tapes of him making an ass of himself? So, maybe he didn't call someone a name, but he did confess to saying the "F-word". Imagine what pranksters can do with that? Like he needs more ridicule.

However, I don't think any of this really matters. His supporters are willing to look the other way with respect to his behaviour. We all know what Rob Ford is like.

[bobbob911]

Besides, does anyone really believe that Bill Blair would lie for Rob Ford? Even if Ford actually said what the CBC alleges, the chief of police actively lying and covering it up would be way worse - it may even be a criminal offense. There's no way he would stick his neck out like that.

[freshcutgrass]

the burden of proof is on the CBC as the one making the claim. Its not on Ford or Blair to offer up proof to refute the claim.

The only claim the CBC made is that they were contacted by sources at Police Services regarding 911 calls made by the mayor, that quoted what the mayor said.

And since it has been well established that the mayor did make the calls (the main problem), and that he did use inappropriate language on those calls (an additional problem), we can conclude that the CBC has adequately established the story and that there was a source.

As for what was said verbatim, it is up to those who have the proof to establish it. Since it seems that the CBC does not have a copy of those tapes, and the police appear to have their hands tied about publicly releasing them, but say the mayor holds the ability to have the tapes released, then the only way to "prove" what was said, lies within the hands of the mayor.

So...we have an un-named source within the police claiming the mayor said certain things, and a mayor saying he didn't say those certain things (with Blair "sorta" trying to defuse the situation).

So we have multiple un-named police sources vs a proven pathological lier....neither can claim they are above reproach.

The mayor is the only one who can prove what he is disputing, yet chooses not to do so. There's only one reason he would do that....he knows that whether he said "b*tches" or "I'm effing Rob Ford" or not, is irrelevant to the fact that it will make him look bad.

[GraphicMatt]

Besides, does anyone really believe that Bill Blair would lie for Rob Ford? Even if Ford actually said what the CBC alleges, the chief of police actively lying and covering it up would be way worse - it may even be a criminal offense. There's no way he would stick his neck out like that.

Yes. Especially given that the two don't particularly get along. Ford would much prefer the city had a police chief in the style of Julian Fantino than someone like Blair, who is big on community policing.

I do tend to agree with those who dismiss this as mostly irrelevant. Either you're someone who doesn't like Ford's character -- and this incident only emphasizes why -- or you're someone who has been willing to ignore a litany similar incidences, many of them worst than this.

To put in another way: if you were okay having a mayor who lied about a DUI, called a colleague a 'waste of skin', has been continually cited by the Integrity commissioner for... not having integrity, & who told a woman at a hockey game that she should go to Iran and get raped and shot, you're probably also okay with having a mayor who told a 911 operator that he was Rob Fucking Ford, bitches.

What he said or didn't say is materially irrelevant.

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Bongo? Fatty Fraud? Too difficult to make a point without name calling?

It's because of who the "accused" is, in this case. My hunch is that if it involved say, David Miller, they would be expecting more of the CBC and not vice versa.


...and proof that it is indeed because it's Rob Ford:

Still waiting for either of you to even attempt to refute the substance of my comments to you. Will I be waiting much longer?

BTW, since when is saying "Wrongo Bongo" name calling? Ford defenders: considering who you're defending, you really need to develop thicker skin. This is the same public office holder who (1) gets drunk in public and screams obscenities and nonsense at people he doesn't know, and then lies about it, (2) was arrested for beating his wife, (3) was arrested for driving drunk, (4) was arrested for narcotics possession, (5) violated and continues to violate election finance laws, (6) lies extensively about his education, (7) thinks it's a compliment to refer to "orientals" as "dogs" ... oh, FFS, do I need to go on? Again, I don't blame him for being a so mentally deficient, I blame us (well, not me) for electing him. But I also blame those, like you, who think his schtick is, in any way, defensible. He's a piece of shit on so many levels. His actions are inconsistent with his rhetoric, and his rhetoric is grade 1 level pablum. Why not just walk away (like most of the people who voted for him) and pretend you had nothing to do with it? It doesn't get better, and it certainly won't end well.

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Besides, does anyone really believe that Bill Blair would lie for Rob Ford? Even if Ford actually said what the CBC alleges, the chief of police actively lying and covering it up would be way worse - it may even be a criminal offense. There's no way he would stick his neck out like that.

Bliar said Fraud didn't say "Bitches". Bliar did not say whether Fraud said "Bitch". If Fraud called someone a "Bitch", Bliar's statement digs Fraud out of a hole without lying.

[Red October]

What..thats Crazy talk................Mods be fair here.

What he said is true, despite how extreme the way he said it was.

[bobbob911]

Bliar said Fraud didn't say "Bitches". Bliar did not say whether Fraud said "Bitch". If Fraud called someone a "Bitch", Bliar's statement digs Fraud out of a hole without lying.

You're crazy if you think that distinction would save Blair's career, if it turned out he was covering for Ford....

[freshcutgrass]

Bliar said Fraud didn't say "Bitches". Bliar did not say whether Fraud said "Bitch". If Fraud called someone a "Bitch", Bliar's statement digs Fraud out of a hole without lying.

I don't think Blair getting involved has anything to do with Ford at all...he's just trying to diffuse an internal issue that has negatively effected his department.

And he's choosing his words very carefully...he doesn't say no one from police services contacted the CBC with that information, he says.... "There have been no complaints by any members of the TPS about the 9-1-1 conversations.". That just means no formal complaint has been filed within the police department against verbal abuse from a 911 caller (if there is even such a process).

It is in both Ford's and Blair's best interest to have this blow over as soon as possible. That's why Ford is just walking away from it. And that's why releasing the tapes is not something he would want to do.