Disappearing Paul Arthur signage at St. George

This probably doesn't matter for most of you, but it seems like some more of the Paul Arthur wayfinding signage is gone from the at least one of the platforms. I was passing through the station this afternoon and I noticed that the green/yellow bands (don't remember which) had been removed. Does any know if this is permanent? Or just something temporary for say station maintenance?

Last I heard they were going to be removing them completely and cleaning up the station.

Good riddance.

One less station with unique signage/design.

No point in keeping it up, as it was a failed conceptual design.

wilson_wu said:

No point in keeping it up, as it was a failed conceptual design.

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And I'm sure you have some evidence to back that up?

He's right. It was a mockup for a concept that was going to be rolled out across the system, with each station being given it's own distinctive shield that would reflect the neighbourhood it was in. They didn't go with the concept, so St. George is just an orphaned mockup.

whatever said:

He's right. It was a mock up for a concept that was going to be rolled out across the system, with each station being given it's own distinctive shield that would reflect the neighbourhood it was in. They didn't go with the concept, so St. George is just an orphaned mockup.

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I think the key word for me was failed. I understand the only reason they didn't roll this system out was because the TTC is woefully inept at good decisions on signage.
Ideas from the project were adopted for the Sheppard line, and I think we're likely to see a revival of at least parts of this system with the report from the customer service review.

picard102 said:

I think the key word for me was failed. I understand the only reason they didn't roll this system out was because the TTC is woefully inept at good decisions on signage.
Ideas from the project were adopted for the Sheppard line, and I think we're likely to see a revival of at least parts of this system with the report from the customer service review.

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Each station having it's own symbol, in my opinion at least, looks cheap and tacky.

Not to mention, those bars do not have TTC font, so they don't meet TTC standards as the TTC has recently adopted a new practice of replacing station signage with the TTC font. St. George was one of the most recent stations targetted for cleaning up, new tile grout, new floors. You'll notice St. George is one of the cleaner stations on the Bloor line.

Were a lot of the ideas in Paul Arthur's design good? Yes.

But it was a failed conceptual design that was originally planned to be rolled out system wide. St. George was the pilot project and it failed to be expanded across the system. The Customer Service Advisory report makes mention of consistent wayfinding signage, but no mention of Paul Arthur. What they likely mean is expanding the use of Sheppard-line style signage to older stations in the system that continue to have a Frankenstein mix of signage.

So the signage at St.George is old, obsolete and has no place in the TTC. Nor do I think it's an important part of the TTC's history. I think the stuff underneath Paul Arthur's designs are a lot more historical and worth preserving.

wilson_wu said:

So the signage at St.George is old, obsolete and has no place in the TTC. Nor do I think it's an important part of the TTC's history. I think the stuff underneath Paul Arthur's designs are a lot more historical and worth preserving.

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Even if it failed as a systemwide model and the "stuff underneath" is more worth preserving (though, all things considered, Arthur *didn't* disfigure St George's fundamental aspect through his overlay), the way you're dismissing it, you sound like a peevish jerk, you know that?

Well, at least you're not suggesting replacing original Spadina-line signage/lettering with the TTC font, lest the ghost of Arthur Erickson come up and haunt you...

adma said:

Even if it failed as a systemwide model and the "stuff underneath" is more worth preserving (though, all things considered, Arthur *didn't* disfigure St George's fundamental aspect through his overlay), the way you're dismissing it, you sound like a peevish jerk, you know that?

Well, at least you're not suggesting replacing original Spadina-line signage/lettering with the TTC font, lest the ghost of Arthur Erickson come up and haunt you...

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Peevish jerk or not, it's my opinion and I'll dismiss it if I want to. It has no place in the TTC because it's ugly, only covers half the station, and most of Arthur's other wayfinding system components were removed from the station years ago. What's remaining in the station is only bits and pieces of Arthur's original work and keeping it would only perpetuate the TTC's wayfinding clutter.

If you're so horrified by the destruction of Arthur's work...then by all means go create a museum for his stuff. Even though his creations were not part of the station's original decor.

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I visited the station tonight. What they're doing looks great. They removed a small portion of Paul Arthur's green bar on the westbound platform and they've replaced the soot-covered chipped and drilled tiles with shiny brand new tiles.

They're also replacing trackside tiles that have corroded over the years due to water damage at the far east end of the westbound platform.

If someone could post photos, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thank goodness they're cleaning up St. George. It's one of the busiest stations in the system and very visible to visitors to our city. I think Paul Arthur's designs were great, infusing the banal Bloor-Danforth aesthetic with some modern details. The logos would have given the stations some character.

But having half a strip of Arthur signage, a system of signage that was sadly not adopted system wide, is simply out of place and messy. The TTC shouldn't destroy the signs but store them somewhere, perhaps for their museum, or donate it to someone who'd appreciate the design work.

junctionist said:

Thank goodness they're cleaning up St. George. It's one of the busiest stations in the system and very visible to visitors to our city. I think Paul Arthur's designs were great, infusing the banal Bloor-Danforth aesthetic with some modern details. The logos would have given the stations some character.

But having half a strip of Arthur signage, a system of signage that was sadly not adopted system wide, is simply out of place and messy. The TTC shouldn't destroy the signs but store them somewhere, perhaps for their museum, or donate it to someone who'd appreciate the design work.

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Memo to wilson_wu: this is how to *not* sound like a peevish jerk.

All that's left is getting rid of/replacing those Sheppard Subway-esque info panels.

Otherwise I just hope the TTC actually goes through with its plan to seriously review its wayfinding and signage.

Readers of this thread, particularly the nastier and more ignorant, might want to read about the actual project.

joeclark said:

Readers of this thread, particularly the nastier and more ignorant, might want to read about the actual project.

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Corrected url. (You're forgiven.)

Of course, wilson_wu probably thinks you're a prick, anyway. (He's equivalent to those folk who tell preservationists "if you think that building's so special, buy it".)

adma said:

Corrected url. (You're forgiven.)

Of course, wilson_wu probably thinks you're a prick, anyway. (He's equivalent to those folk who tell preservationists "if you think that building's so special, buy it".)

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Can you give it a rest already?

I made an opinion. You disagreed. Called me an peevish jerk, not once, but twice. I let it slide. Then you continued by insinuating that I think Joe Clark is a prick, which I don't.

You have your opinions and I have mine as well. I don't think you are a prick for having opinions. But when you stoop as low as to attack someone personally, that's what makes you the jerk. And having took a look at the comments left on your profile, it's not the first time you've apparently attacked someone personally for expressing their opinions on something.

You are what is wrong with humanity, I can picture you, a lonely arrogant prick. Do you take pleasure insulting people for no good reason? Are you highly educated and assume no one else is? do me and the world a favour....consider suicide.

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You are such an arrogant douchebag.

Either you just can't read, or you can't divine the meaning from the words.

I was defending a person... Not the architecture.

You attack the people, not the opinion or the argument and that is what makes the likes of you so distasteful.

You and thedeepend must have fun mutually stroking each others' psychological phalluses. His and your egomaniacal, self-righteous ramblings are revolting.

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I have some photos of the retiling and regrouting at St.George.

I'll post them when I have time to transfer them from my microSD card.