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GO Richmond Hill Line

T

Toronto1

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Is the Richmond Hill line's trackage owned by Metrolinx / GO Transit or is it owned by either CN or CP?
Regardless of ownership, if freight trains continue to operate on the trackage, what are the rules that govern its usage? For example, are commuter trains getting priority, or are they getting exclusivity, during the morning and afternoon rushes?
Is the Richmond Hill line single-tracked or double-tracked? If it is only single-tracked, is it a case that double-tracking is not possible due to available space or because GO Transit hasn't gotten around to it yet?
What is the alignment of the Richmond Hill line? I know that GO Transit's map is awful, but I am only vaguely aware of how the trackage really approaches Union Station from south of the 401 to where it lines up with the Bayview Extension.
Do you think that there are any locations south of the 401 where a station could be added?
 
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Google Earth pegs Oriole at 400m.

It is owned by CN, and is part of the Bala Sub, of which both the Ontario Northlander and VIA (Toronto-Vancouver) also operate on. It is single tracked mainly from downtown to York Mills, then doubled to Leslie, single to York Sub., then double the rest of the way to Richmond Hill Station.

In regards to the alignment, since you know generally where it is I'm sure you'll be able to deduce which line it is... see this map
 
Thanks for the information Andomano. That clears up a lot for me.

Of course, if anybody wants to add more information, please feel free to do so!
 
It also is quite the scenic route (through the Don Valley) especially during the fall months.
 
Do you think that there are any locations south of the 401 where a station could be added?
 
Is the Richmond Hill line's trackage owned by Metrolinx / GO Transit or is it owned by either CN or CP?

No tracks are owned by GO Transit or Metrolinx. The Richmond Hill line is owned by CNR. The only CP line is Milton (maybe it's Georgetown; both of those lines are irrelevant to me anyways).

Regardless of ownership, if freight trains continue to operate on the trackage, what are the rules that govern its usage? For example, are commuter trains getting priority, or are they getting exclusivity, during the morning and afternoon rushes?

Commuter trains are required by law to have priority. And the line only runs in the morning and afternoon rushes.

Is the Richmond Hill line single-tracked or double-tracked? If it is only single-tracked, is it a case that double-tracking is not possible due to available space or because GO Transit hasn't gotten around to it yet?

It varies. It's double trackage from the Doncaster Diamond (around John Street & Bayview) all the way north to the end of the line. South of there, it varies. Around parks, it's almost always single trackage, but it's double trackage between Old Cummer and Lawrence Avenue, and also Double north of the Don River and its surrounding ravine.

What is the alignment of the Richmond Hill line? I know that GO Transit's map is awful, but I am only vaguely aware of how the trackage really approaches Union Station from south of the 401 to where it lines up with the Bayview Extension.

The train leaves Union Station and turns up into the Don Valley. It's aligned with the Bayview Avenue Extention until where the Extension turns west. The track continues east along the Don River and crosses below Don Mills Road just north of the DVP. It then crosses under the DVP, follows north of Woodgreen Park, est of the Flemingdon Park golf course, and crosses over the DVP just south of Lawrence. It goes just east of Leslie, then crosses Leslie just south of the 401 and follows Leslie on the west side. It crosses over the East Don Parkland twice, and then heads northwest to Langstaff, where it follows about half a km east of Yonge to Richmond Hill.

Do you think that there are any locations south of the 401 where a station could be added?

Not really. South of the 401, it goes through parklands where you can't build a station, and places where people can just take the Subway. The only people who really even take the GO at Oriole are just massive egoistical elitists - the subway is right there, and its waaaay cheaper
 
I have wondered about the possibility of increasing the connectivity of this line by routing onto the CP Belleville sub to allow a station at Leaside (connect to future DRL) and potentially stations on Don Mills (Don Mills LRT or DRL) and/or Eglinton (Eglinton LRT).

As well, I have pondered if there is a way to connect to Broadview station from the Belleville sub. Perhaps running the trains on a viaduct above the Don Valley Parkway and creating a station in the space between the highway and the lower level of the Bloor Viaduct, or a short tunnel into the hillside.

There could also be a station at Queen Street for the Donlands and the King and Queen streetcars.

Greg
 
No tracks are owned by GO Transit or Metrolinx.
This statement is true for the Richard Hill line, it's a fairly absolute statement, and in that sense it is incorrect. GO now owns quite a bit of trackage. A map of GO ownership is at:

http://www.cn.ca/en/lower-newmarket-agreement.htm

This doesn't include the segment of the Lakeshore West line from Willowbrook to Union that Go very recently purchased from CN.
 
Don't forget to read above posts to make sure you're not repeating the same information
Around parks, it's almost always single trackage, but it's double trackage between Old Cummer and Lawrence Avenue

I don't know what route you've been riding, but the double track is only between York Mills and Leslie. The double track doesn't even extend all the way to Oriole Station... nevermind Old Cummer.

The only people who really even take the GO at Oriole are just massive egoistical elitists - the subway is right there, and its waaaay cheaper

Oriole is for people who wish to cut 10 minutes off their commute, while also paying a premium fare for the ride, but not paying for parking. It was a more useful station before the stubway was built as it saved an even greateramount of time vs. the TTC
 
Forgetting issues such as fare integration and/or inter-agency financing for the time being, would a station at York Mills be useful to intercept route 95 users that would otherwise use the Yonge Line during rush hours? A commuter parking lot wouldn't be a requirement here although, whether or not one was put in place, I'm sure that the number of cars that currently park under the overpass would be impacted to some degree.

I think that a station at Thorncliffe would be useful to divert a few peak hour route 25 buses from Pape Station, but I doubt that the City would allow it. Plus, the road to E.T. Seton Park would have to be improved, possibly re-graded, and maintained in the winter.

Not that I am contemplating subway-type station spacing on a GO Transit line! I understand that each additional stop increases travel time, which impacts the perceived benefit of the overall service.
 
Richmond Hill line is very slow, there's no point in doing any additions or double tracking the southern portion, until it gest rerouted to a straighter corridor.

Currently, GO is studying a layover yard in Aurora to allow more services in the morning and evening.
 
Richmond Hill line is very slow, there's no point in doing any additions or double tracking the southern portion, until it gest rerouted to a straighter corridor.

I'm pretty sure that making the trains run faster and more frequently (via double-tracking, Doncaster grade separation, etc) is much more cost-effective than finding a new north-south right of way for the line.

Out of curiosity, why doesn't GO use the CP track out of the Don Valley? Is the grade too steep?

Edit: Map

QYRco.jpg
 
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I'm not sure how potential usage of that line is impacted by what is being marketed as the Leaside Railpath, which the City will be paving either this year or next. It will be located where the trackage has been removed from behind the old Inn on the Park site, crossing over Lawrence between Leslie and The Donway, before ending somewhere in the area of York Mills Road.
 
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What is the platform length at a train station? I imagine that it is standardized but, if not, the length for a specific station such as Oriole will be sufficient.

Is the Richmond Hill line single-tracked or double-tracked? If it is only single-tracked, is it a case that double-tracking is not possible due to available space or because GO Transit hasn't gotten around to it yet?
GO standard length for platform length is 315m.

No tracks are owned by GO Transit or Metrolinx. The Richmond Hill line is owned by CNR. The only CP line is Milton (maybe it's Georgetown; both of those lines are irrelevant to me anyways).
The Milton line that runs on CP tracks.

I have wondered about the possibility of increasing the connectivity of this line by routing onto the CP Belleville sub to allow a station at Leaside (connect to future DRL) and potentially stations on Don Mills (Don Mills LRT or DRL) and/or Eglinton (Eglinton LRT).

As well, I have pondered if there is a way to connect to Broadview station from the Belleville sub. Perhaps running the trains on a viaduct above the Don Valley Parkway and creating a station in the space between the highway and the lower level of the Bloor Viaduct, or a short tunnel into the hillside.

There could also be a station at Queen Street for the Donlands and the King and Queen streetcars.
The environmental restrictions around the Don Valley and the cost of a new grade-seperated structure to pass the DVP make a connection to Broadview Station unappealing and cost-prohibitive as much as it provides great connectivity. Much more likely to Frank Castle Station and put a GO station at Bayview/Bloor (assuming they can get planning permission).

A Queen GO Station at the southeast of Queen/Bayview would be nice.

would a station at York Mills be useful to intercept route 95 users that would otherwise use the Yonge Line during rush hours?
A station at York Mills would be useful in intercepting some TTC Route 95 users. However, I don't think this is something GO is inclided to do. You'll have one of two results: low usage making the station a poor investment or high usage delaying service beyond York Mills due to increased dwell time.

Oriole GO is already well positioned to intercept Sheppard/York Mills traffic. A York Mills GO Station would mean closing Oriole GO, losing that close highway connection, and put commuters on the local streets. So any consideration of a York Mills GO Station loses out as it's too close to an existing station and too expensive to relocate a station. As Oriole GO is supposed provide an alternative to the Yonge Line, a York Mills station to do the same is overkill, IMO.

I think that a station at Thorncliffe would be useful to divert a few peak hour route 25 buses from Pape Station, but I doubt that the City would allow it. Plus, the road to E.T. Seton Park would have to be improved, possibly re-graded, and maintained in the winter.

A Thorncliffe GO Station make much more sense, as there is space and probable demand. However, you run into trouble with all the industrial spur tracks.

Richmond Hill line is very slow, there's no point in doing any additions or double tracking the southern portion, until it gest rerouted to a straighter corridor.

Currently, GO is studying a layover yard in Aurora to allow more services in the morning and evening.

I like the thought put into some improvements for the line, but the realistically the Richmond Hill line represents less than 5% of GO ridership. The money is going to go where they demand exists and stations exist, but infrastructure limits headways. I'd put GO's priorities as: Georgetown, Lakeshore East, Lakeshore West, Milton, Stouffville, Barrie, Richmond Hill. Rather than trying to generate demand by fixing problems, GO is trying to meet demand by fixing choke points.

Planned projects on the Richmond Hill line include a Gormley GO Station and Bethesda Sideroad (Aurora) Layover Yard (EA completed). Second phase planning includes station at Bloomington Road. Also, grade separation of the Doncaster Diamond is needed for full all-day service, which won't have an EA until 2013 and construction afterwards. This is the biggest choke point on the line, so after the extension, don't expect any significant developments before 2016.

I'm pretty sure that making the trains run faster and more frequently (via double-tracking, Doncaster grade separation, etc) is much more cost-effective than finding a new north-south right of way for the line.

Out of curiosity, why doesn't GO use the CP track out of the Don Valley? Is the grade too steep?
The Richmond Hill line was the second/third GO line to begin service. The CN Bala Subdivision was chosen as an alignment to service the Leaside Spur, which was soon abandoned.

Some history
 

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