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James: Streetcar plan takes speed out of ‘rapid’ transit

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James: Streetcar plan takes speed out of ‘rapid’ transit


Apr 05 2010

By Royson James

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Read More:[/B] http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc...reetcar-plan-takes-speed-out-of-rapid-transit

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In the wake of disappointment over the delays of some of the Transit City streetcar lines — Finch and Eglinton and one out to Malvern — proponents have been boosting the impact of the projects, sometimes with claims that are debatable. Transit City is not a rapid transit plan. It’s an environmentally sensitive plan. There’s nothing rapid about St. Clair or Spadina. They are comfortable. They move on schedule. But they are not fast. And a streetcar line from Highway 27 to Yonge St. won’t be dashing along, either. The first acknowledgement should be this: A streetcar network is second-best. It is being proposed because we don’t have the money to do better and our political leaders are not bold enough to tax us to generate the funds or innovative enough to seek other funding options with the private sector.

Many citizens are willing to settle for second-best because the ideal seems so impossibly difficult. But show citizens a subway building plan and the mayor can have $100 in annual licence renewal fees. There will be weeping and wailing, but the cause is just. Yes, the plan should be accompanied by zoning changes that push intensification along the routes — carefully and sensitively, but pushed ahead, and above the howls of those who want to stand still and not accommodate a more densely populated city. Yes, build it one station a year for 20 or 30 years.

Yes, finish the Sheppard Stub-way, east to the Scarborough Town Centre and west to the Downsview station to complete a loop with the Yonge-University and the Bloor-Danforth lines. That means we’d be able to travel around three-quarters of the city by subway, and jump off on extensions to the outer reaches. There seems to be a desire for rapid transit along Eglinton, as well. So, go to it. And the so-called Downtown Relief line in the east-midtown may be a good idea as well.

But don’t tell us that residents in northwest Toronto are now taking three buses over two hours to get to work and hold up the proposed Finch streetcar line as a solution. Commuters may save a few minutes, but it won’t take them long to be dissatisfied with the small, incremental improvement.

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So Eglinton LRT would faster than Bloor subway, but the Bloor subway would be rapid transit, and Eglinton not. Very interesting.
 
Transit City is not a rapid transit plan. It’s an environmentally sensitive plan. There’s nothing rapid about St. Clair or Spadina. They are comfortable. They move on schedule. But they are not fast. And a streetcar line from Highway 27 to Yonge St. won’t be dashing along, either.

This is a perfect example of why Royson James is such a poor journalist. Clearly the guy isn't stupid ... but he puts so much bias into his writing, that he has no credibility. He takes two streetcar routes that no one has ever pretended were rapid transit, and uses it to say that the new LRT lines won't be rapid. The weekday rush-hour velocity on Spadina (Bloor to King) and St. Clair is only scheduled as 12.2 to 13.5 km/hr. The new LRT routes are planned to be 22 to 30 km/hr. The subway that James hypes is only 30 to 31.4 km/hr.

If you look at the Eglinton line from Pearson to the airport, it's designed to take 78 minutes to travel the 33 km. An average speed of 25 km/hr. If this was at the St. Clair/Spadina speeds it would take 147 minutes. If it was the same speed as the Bloor subway, it would take 63 minutes. Currently by bus it takes 113 minutes.

So for about $4.6 billion we improve it from 113 minutes to 78 minutes, saving 45 minutes on the trip. But perhaps one could spend about $8.6 billion instead to save that extra 15 minutes by making it subway.

Royson James is completely fiscally irresponsible for suggesting we should be building things like this as subway, for so little extra savings.
 
This is a perfect example of why Royson James is such a poor journalist. Clearly the guy isn't stupid ... but he puts so much bias into his writing, that he has no credibility. He takes two streetcar routes that no one has ever pretended were rapid transit, and uses it to say that the new LRT lines won't be rapid. The weekday rush-hour velocity on Spadina (Bloor to King) and St. Clair is only scheduled as 12.2 to 13.5 km/hr. The new LRT routes are planned to be 22 to 30 km/hr. The subway that James hypes is only 30 to 31.4 km/hr.

Royson James is completely fiscally irresponsible for suggesting we should be building things like this as subway, for so little extra savings.

Just nitpicking, but subway is 30km/h with close spacing. The north Yonge line averages 40-42km/h, and the east Danforth line averages more than that.

However, I agree that this is a ridiculously biased article.

The first acknowledgement should be this: A streetcar network is second-best. It is being proposed because we don’t have the money to do better and our political leaders are not bold enough to tax us to generate the funds or innovative enough to seek other funding options with the private sector.

Actually that is exactly what Miller and Giambrone have been saying all along. Though I wouldn't recommend the private sector option given the garbage we're getting as a Pearson rail link.

proponents have been boosting the impact of the projects, sometimes with claims that are debatable.

Oh, the irony.
 
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My opinion is that any part of the transit network that functions as a regional core line must be built as a subway. Eglinton, SRT, Sheppard, Don Mills, plus the potential DRL must be built as subway in order to be truly effective. Jane, Finch, waterfront west, and whatever other lines there are could be LRT as planned.

Even today, most people wish that the Eglinton West subway line was never canceled. Imagine what we'll be thinking by 2020.
 
Just nitpicking, but subway is 30km/h with close spacing. The north Yonge line averages 40-42km/h, and the east Danforth line averages more than that.
According to the schedule Eglinton to Finch is an average of 38.8 km/hr with a 1.7 km average spacing. This is much bigger spacing than is being proposed on even the underground section of Eglinton. As for Danforth; Broadview-Kennedy is about 10.5 km and takes 18 minutes; a speed of only 35 km/hr with an average spacing of over 1 km; still more than being proposed on Eglinton.
 
In the wake of disappointment over the delays of some of the Transit City streetcar lines — Finch and Eglinton and one out to Malvern — proponents have been boosting the impact of the projects, sometimes with claims that are debatable. Transit City is not a rapid transit plan. It’s an environmentally sensitive plan. There’s nothing rapid about St. Clair or Spadina. They are comfortable. They move on schedule. But they are not fast. And a streetcar line from Highway 27 to Yonge St. won’t be dashing along, either. The first acknowledgement should be this: A streetcar network is second-best. It is being proposed because we don’t have the money to do better and our political leaders are not bold enough to tax us to generate the funds or innovative enough to seek other funding options with the private sector.

Many citizens are willing to settle for second-best...

But don’t tell us that residents in northwest Toronto are now taking three buses over two hours to get to work and hold up the proposed Finch streetcar line as a solution. Commuters may save a few minutes, but it won’t take them long to be dissatisfied with the small, incremental improvement.

I see absolutely no false statements being made in Royson James' article, although I question the bit about the streetcars running on a reliable schedule. The TTC themselves have touted 512 St Clair as the prototypical Transit City line, and for a good decade now the 510 Spadina Line has been distinguished on transit maps as a LRT line distinct from ordinary streetcar lines. Both also have transit signal priority and grade separated sections. So it would appear the only biased ones here are those that seek to brandish Transit City as something it is not, despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary... RAPID!

Pennywise, pound foolish. If the TTC thinks that a tramway - which for all intents and proposes would operate far slower than to run a mixed local/express bus fleet down Finch in dedicated bus lanes - is better than say having a interline spur off the new TYSSE line which would directly intercept the densely populated Jane-Finch neighbourhood; then obviously the TTC knows very little about their customer base and where they're heading. Whether the average commuter spends an hour commuting on a bus or a gold-plated five million dollar streetcar makes no difference to them. In essence, TC is nothing more than elitist top-down decisions which the public had very little say in, especially the adjacent local constituents whose daily lives and livelihoods will be affected.

Oh and an Eglinton West subway line several kilometres to the south would still be far more beneficial to most residents than Finch West LRT, which itself is merely a feeder to the nearest subway.
 
How can anyone claim that an Eglinton LRT will be faster than the Bloor line? With equivalent stop spacing, they'll be the same speed, if not slower for Eglinton since it's not fully grade-separated.
 
Rest assured, Eglinton Crosstown LRT as planned will be an 80 minute commute from Airport Corporate Ctr to Kennedy which is the same as now only without as many transfers and terminal stop layover times.
 
There is no way the Eglinton LRT would be anywhere near the current schedule if it doesn't need to deal with traffic, has less stops, and has signal priority or grade separation throughout. The LRT vehicles are capable of 70km/h and the only thing that prevents them from going 50-60km/h are stops and traffic. To state otherwise shows bias and a complete lack of sense. Nowhere on this route will these LRT vehicles see enough delay to match all the delays buses on the route currently do.
 
I once walked from Eglnton west east bound to bayview before jumping on a bus to vic park. REASON. Traffic was not moving at all on eglinton. Partly because of bad weather partly because of the ALLEN. I dont believe for a second that the LRT wont be faster then the current bus. Theres less stops, some of its underground, and theres NO traffic.
 
I once walked from Eglnton west east bound to bayview before jumping on a bus to vic park. REASON. Traffic was not moving at all on eglinton. Partly because of bad weather partly because of the ALLEN.

Are you saying traffic coming off the Allen at Eglinton was still causing slowness eastbound beyond such major cross streets as Bathurst, Avenue, Yonge and Mt Pleasant?

I'd expect any drivers looking to be on Eglinton at Bayview or points east would stay on the 401 until Bayview or Leslie and not take the Allen south.

(And for what it's worth, it is about 5km from the Allen to Bayview, with at least a couple of uphill sections in between. Without accounting for bad weather that is enough to bring traffic to a near standstill (heavy snow?), you'd be having to walk very briskly to do that distance in 40 minutes.)
 
Rest assured, Eglinton Crosstown LRT as planned will be an 80 minute commute from Airport Corporate Ctr to Kennedy which is the same as now only without as many transfers and terminal stop layover times.

Lol.

Clearly you have not ridden the Eglinton West Bus. I used to a regular rider until March, and I can assure you, from Eglinton to Dufferin, the bus took min 35 minutes. Your bias is showing, if you think LRT running in tunnel, and ROW is not going to be faster than the current buses.

I think he means the DVP. Traffic on Eglinton to the Allen usually backs up at Old Park Rd, and Marlee Ave.
 
I am saying that typically ppl who get off the allen choose to turn south at bathurst. This day though because there was such a backup some ppl were continuing east and turning south on spadina and avenue road. I am saying that the ALLEN was a contributing factor (other contributing factor- medium ammount of snow) to the mess on EGLINTON that day and everyday just different degrees of chaos. THE LRT will avoid this nonsense.
 
Amen for that article.


Took them long enough to see Transit city for what it truly is...

They dropped the ball on Eglinton, If it was FULL separated from Traffic it would have been perfect... although subways perform better
 

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