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Are all Toronto hospitals like this?

m1150

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I recently spent some time at Toronto East General Hospital for an ailment, and it was one of the worst experiences of my life, despite the courtesy and professionalism of the staff. My experiences included:

*The ER was disorganized with would-be patients walking around all over the place waiting for triage and no clear priority system.
*I waited 5 hours to be seen after triage (not unexpected).
*I was then stuck for 24 hours in an alcove of the ER listening to the wails of geriatric patients with dementia while waiting for an inpatient bed to open up.
*I was then taken upstairs to an inpatient ward. Because my "semi-private" room was not yet cleaned, I was placed in a tiny ward room with two elderly men and two women. One of the men kept screaming and another kept vomiting. I said I couldn't stay there and was told I could wait in a chair in the hall, which I did.
*My "semi-private" room was microscopic, probably meant for a single person. My roommate was another incontinent geriatric patient with dementia who made disgusting noises for hours.
*The ward was very crowded and noisy with little privacy, and I was kept awake by more screaming and the attempts of the heroic nurses to communicate with their barely functioning patients.
*The interior of the building was dreary and dilapidated, with scuffed floors, beaten-up doors, holes in the paint jobs and failing ceiling tiles. There were few amenities for patients -- on the floor was a tiny "lounge" with a few chairs and old magazines, no TV.
*I overheard nurses commenting that a dead patient had been left in his bed for several hours in a serious violation of hospital practice.
*Bedridden patients were given cardboard urinals that sometimes had holes in them rather than the normal plastic kind.

None of this should be held against the medical staff, who were attentive in providing all the help I needed as quickly as they could. And it may be hard to blame the hospital for the conduct of its dying patients, although I think there should be a way to keep patients suffering from senility together, away from the general population.

But I'm used to U.S. hospitals which, while not luxurious, are meant to be at least comfortable. (Please, no lectures on the comparative merits of the two countries' healthcare systems.) In its crowding, physical condition and lack of physical comforts, TEGH seemed to be something I'd expect in a much less wealthy country than Canada.

Now I kind of know the answer to my own question. I spent time at Holland Orthopedic on Wellesley Street, part of Sunnybrook Hospital, and it had none of the problems of TEGH. Of course, Holland Orthopedic is a much different kind of hospital treating much different patients. I also have some experience with a hospital in a smaller Ontario town, which was much nicer than TEGH, albeit with similar long waits to be seen in the ER.

So would I find the same kind of problems in all Toronto general hospitals? Is there a more comfortable hospital to go to the next time I am seriously ill? Thanks.
 
TEGH is, like St Joe's, an appalling hospital. Those not connected to the well-funded University Health Network tend to be the pits. A friend of mine started her nursing career at TEG and was disgusted, finally finding a job at better UHN hospital. One issue at places like TEG is laying off RN and hiring cheaper RPN's in place. It comes down to being underfunded.

Probably the best hospital I've stayed in was Kitchener's Grand River--post renovations.

Avoid St Joseph's and TEG in the future!

The best Toronto hospital (personal experience) is Toronto Branson--@Finch west of Bathurst.
 
It's disheartening to read of an experience like yours. Five years ago I took my son to Sunnybrook Emergency - he was in an accident and needed stitches above his eye. The staff were heroic - we waited our turn in the priority of things and in six hours he was attended to. This was a Saturday night. I was surprised that there was ONE doctor - I didn't see any other Doctors come or go from the Emergency ward. This ONE doctor dealt with everyone in the waiting room; there was a boy bleeding from the nose injured in a fight; another boy was moaning and holding his injured hand, and at least two other patients. All patients were concious and able to sit up. I'm supposing this lone doctor was a - don't know the term - "generalist"? - and could draw on other doctor specialists from elsewhere in the building. But I still felt sorry for the doctor - he looked like he was run ragged.
 
TEGH does not have the best reputation. Your best bet if you ever have a choice is to go to one of the big downtown hospitals in the UHN.

I agree with you that the wards can be very unpleasant. Unfortunately, they're also the last places to be renovated. Since these things often operate on at least a partly community fundraising basis, hospital functions like cancer care or heart treatment get renovated first. It's a lot harder to raise money for "general inpatient ward renovations." THat said, I don't think we should ever build shared hospital rooms again. Not only are they very detrimental to patient comfort, but they are also a serious infection risk. The MUHC and CHUM in Montreal are both planning to go with all single rooms.

The province is also trying to move toward an "urgent care" service in addition to the emergency room. When I was a kid, you could go to 24 hour urgent care clinics for things that couldn't wait until Monday morning but weren't the kind of life-threatening problems have to be treated in emerg. If they're going back to something like that, I think it would be great.

I would also note that a lot of the senile people that you described would have been forced to leave a typical American hospital for financial reasons, which perhaps partially explains their increased prominence up here.
 
On a Friday night in September 2003 I came down with what I self diagnosed as strep throat. By Saturday afternoon it was real bad so I went to a walk-in clinic (in and out in under 45 minutes) armed with a script for Penicillin. As Saturday evening approached a terrible stabbing pain began between my jawbone up to my right ear and into my scalp so off I went to emerg. at St. Michael's Hospital. I was seen and assessed within an hour and sent home to continue with the penicillin. Sunday came and the pain was unbearable, I couldn't think, I could feel my throat closing up and had a sore throat like never before, I knew I was in big trouble. I dropped my dog off at the Vet to be boarded and took a cab back to St. Mike's. I was seen very quickly which surprised me because I basically presented with a sore throat again. I was placed into a small room where I waited for somewhere around 3 or 4 horrific hours in extreme pain. I finally left to find someone to get me some pain relief and found a sympathetic male nurse who got things moving. Within a short time an x-ray was done and everyone starting working on and around me sticking needles into me, IV's, throat swabs and learned an hour later that I had Peritonsillar Abscess. While laying in emerg. I experienced very similar type of people as described above which didn't bother me as I was more worried for myself and trying to breathe. Around 8 or 9 I was taken up to the new Ear Nose and Throat Clinic (ENT Clinic) where I had a different roommate come through every day or two each for cataract or some kind of eye surgery but all very quiet and nice men. Aside from the long wait in the small room I was treated very well for the 8 days I was there.

My 7 or 8 other hospital stays in my life have all been good, never a bad experience aside from the long admission at St. Mike's described above. The dozens upon dozens of hospital visits to see friends and family have all been good and my impression is that most had positive experiences too. People can cut the Canadian system down all they want. It's not perfect but it gives me great peace of mind knowing that we have among the world's best hospitals, Doctors, Nurses and Specialists here in Canada not to mention the huge amount of research being done in our country.
 
So would I find the same kind of problems in all Toronto general hospitals? Is there a more comfortable hospital to go to the next time I am seriously ill? Thanks.

I would suggest, in all seriousness, that if it looks like a surgical procedure and a few days or more in hospital then it would be worthwhile flying to Thailand. Do some shopping when released and you will not come out behind financially if you attach any value at all to your sense of well-being.
 
I've had similar experiences with the emergency at Gerrard and University. Never made it through the triage area in less than 8 hours in my three visits there.

The worst thing I saw while waiting was a guy who had slipped on the ice and bashed his head. He was still bleeding from the back of the head, and the triage nurse gave him some bandages that quickly got soaked with blood. After waiting for an hour and repeatedly asking when he would be looked at, he got fed up and left in a cab. Truly sad to see this here in Canada.
 
TEGH is, like St Joe's, an appalling hospital. Those not connected to the well-funded University Health Network tend to be the pits. A friend of mine started her nursing career at TEG and was disgusted, finally finding a job at better UHN hospital.

The best Toronto hospital (personal experience) is Toronto Branson--@Finch west of Bathurst.

I thought so too...why did they close it a year or two ago? Any clue? Is it open again?
 
Branson was closed almost 12 years ago, back when Mike Harris was in power. He closed it as part of the 'Common' Sense Revolution. I used to live near Branson, and would not consider it a great hospital at all. Maybe the outpatient clinic is good, but the actual ER is nothing special. It sounds about the same as any other Toronto area hospitals.

Right now it is only a daytime ER (8AM - 11PM), and an outpatient clinic. There is also a large geriatric wing for long-term patients. Branson is now a division of NYGH.

We need to change the way healthcare is delivered in this country. ER's are full. We need more doctors who make house calls or more 24/7 urgent care clinics for non-life threatening stuff like broken limbs, etc..
 
If you want to see crumbling hospitals, come to Quebec!

Or closer, go to Scarborough. I went out there for some kind of imaging test on my neck a few years ago, the pain clinic I go to arranged it all the way out there. Scarborough General is a crumbling disaster. I had my tonsils out there and a few other procedures when I was young as well as family being in there over the years so seeing it in the condition it's in now is kind of sad.
 
I've had similar experiences with the emergency at Gerrard and University. Never made it through the triage area in less than 8 hours in my three visits there.

The worst thing I saw while waiting was a guy who had slipped on the ice and bashed his head. He was still bleeding from the back of the head, and the triage nurse gave him some bandages that quickly got soaked with blood. After waiting for an hour and repeatedly asking when he would be looked at, he got fed up and left in a cab. Truly sad to see this here in Canada.

From a medical perspective, that's not really an 'emergency' per say.

Too many people go to the emerge. What is it? 1300 dollars per visit? The system isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than the U.S.

They treat you here based on your need and ailements, down there, they treat you as a pay cheque - that's why you feel services is better down there, because it does cost substantially more.
 
I once went to the emergency room and it was quite an experience.

It was 11 o'clock in the evening and the waiting room was packed with sick people. I had a head injured girl, bleeding and semi-conscious sitting next to me and I couldn't look away from her because I seriously thought she would collapse. She faintly said she had a bike-car accident and sat there for a half an hour. Not surprisingly, most people sitting at the waiting room look like they'll be dead in couple hours.

The ones that go into the ER right away are the ones who, they think, will die in the next minute. People who can wait, will wait.

I waited 3 hours and went into the room only to get an oxygen mask on me (I had a bleeding hand) and a careless doctor who pulled out glass fragments without sanitizing or wearing medical gloves.

You think Canada's free medical is good? Think again. I would rather pay and have it dealt immediately.
 
I had a head injured girl, bleeding and semi-conscious sitting next to me and I couldn't look away from her because I seriously thought she would collapse. She faintly said she had a bike-car accident and sat there for a half an hour. Not surprisingly, most people sitting at the waiting room look like they'll be dead in couple hours.

The mistake this Girl made besides riding a Bike was not calling an ambulance. Had she been taken by Ambulance she would have been seen to asap !

Sunnybrook is an excellent Emergency Hospital if you unfortunately have to be rushed to Emergency in an Ambulance but forget it if you get there on your own power requiring stitches, have a broken bone or even an appendix ready to burst (my Wife almost died in the waiting room ie Hallway waiting to get seen to the over worked Doctor told her to go home she probably just had a bad case of gas).
 

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