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View Poll Results: Was 9/11 an inside job?

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  • Yes

    46 33.58%
  • No

    91 66.42%
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Thread: September 11th: Real or Fraud?

  1. #721

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    ceaz40 You can't have a discussion with this person because his logic works something like this, he uses the defense that if we cannot present "verifiable evidence" then it's not worth taking into consideration. Only one problem though, what is "verifiable evidence" to Grissie? I asked him over and over again wether or not he considers the 9/11 commission report(Government released document on 9/11) to be "verifiable evidence", he WOULDN'T answer the question no matter how many times I asked it but it did say many things that pretty much implied that he considers it to be evidence.
    As I've mentioned to you over and over Kamuix, you can have an opinion - as unsupported as the one you hold. However, that personal opinion does not automatically equal a conspiracy. That you have to prove. To show the existence of a conspiracy you need, among other things, verifiable evidence. You have none, so all you possess is a mere opinion which is unsupported. You simply believe. Nothing more.

    Regarding the 9/11 Commission Report, it does have one very clear and considerable benefit over your mere subjective opinion: it presents a reasonable scenario and comes filled with a considerable amount of supporting information, and it cites supporting documentation that substantiates the account outlined within the report. That accounting and the supporting evidence can be examined. Because the document is published, it can even be refuted IF new and substantial evidence can be presented that will counter what is contained within it. To that end, it presents a far superior accounting of the events of leading up to an including that day than any other claim or conjecture out there. In fact, it is the only such comprehensive document. No conspiracy claim has come anywhere close to being as comprehensive as this report.

    It's also worth noting Kamux that you have stated here on this thread that you have not read the report, do not know what is contained within it, and are incapable of refuting any portion of it. You simply repudiate it because you operate solely on the basis of your unsupported beliefs and imagination, and not on the basis of reason.

    Seriously ceaz40 go back through this thread and read some of the arguments me and Griss had going back and fourth at each other and analyze them and you'll see that you cannot have a discussion with him and that his mind is completely closed. He'll write big sentences and paragraphs with good grammar and spelling as kind of a cover to make himself appear as if he knows what he's talking about, but when you take a closer look you'll quickly see that all he does is manipulate the entire discussion.
    Seriously Kamuix, why don't you go back and do that rather than having someone else do your homework? Too much effort for you? Why don't you pretend to show what you're talking about and start presenting some real evidence to support your claim of a government conspiracy? You've had over ten years to come up with something. Time to present it, or finally admit that you have zero.

    So If you don't show "verifiable evidence" then there's no way Grissle will take it into consideration. But wait.. If it's not "Official" or "Mainstream" or a "Government Document" then to Grissle it's not "verifiable evidence". Do you see what i'm saying? In other words he beleives everything the corporate media tells him and he'll go to any length to try and make anyone else who questions their government look stupid even if he has to manipulate like theres no tomorrow.
    In short Kamoox, verifiable means accurate or justifiable. Just because you don't know what that word means doesn't get you off the hook. The fact that you are either so confused or so incapable of producing anything remotely sufficient for supporting your baseless conspiracy claims is your problem, not mine. It's you making a claim, so it's your responsibility to support it. Verifiable evidence, as explained to you so many times before, has nothing to do with government. Your vague usage of "mainstream" only further points to your confusions regarding the meanings of words. To you "mainstream" is suspect, but you fail to explain why. Your only likely justification is that it serves as a counterpoint to your wild array of unjustified and unsupported "non-mainstream" conspiracy beliefs. As for your worries about "official" documents, it has been pointed out to you over and over that you can refute any document or account only if you have the verifiable evidence that can support such a refutation. You don't. As noted, you have not bothered to read 9/11 Commission Report, you cannot refute the account contained within that document and you don't have any evidence with which to do so. Moreover, you have failed to present any remotely comprehensible, verifiable accounting for what you believe took place, the conspirators, and you certainly have not offered anything that could begin to even support such claims.

    In short, you offer nothing to manipulate.
    Last edited by gristle; 2011-Nov-15 at 00:01.


  2. Default

    You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

    And well If you don't make the effort to read and understand my posts which i'm guessing is most likely because you're affriad to discuss the topic because you might learn something different then what you've been told by the media/government in the past then you're a waste of time.

    At this point you misewell just admit that you've been programmed to beleive what you've been told by the media/government and there's nothing anyone can do about it regardless of what the actually facts are behind it.

    Seriously...


    Your arguments depend on people do be as narrow in the mind as your arguments are. I've shown quite a bit of good evidence but again why is it that you have created this rule that I must show Grissie approved evidence(even though it's a discussion forum) and yet you don't have to provide a thing to prove that I'm delirious? Go ahead, I Challenge you.

    You have no idea how government works and how politicians can be bought off by people. Tons of research on the Internet has shown me that. You haven't done any research on it and you have been brainwashed and conditioned to believe whatever the official story may be. Did you know that the majority of the deceived population are deceived because they only know the governments side of the story?(through mainstream media, propaganda, etc... It's everywhere unless you go to alternative sources on your own but you wouldn't have a clue what that means).

    See.. I know it sounds kind of weird to people who don't know much or anything about psychology but I can generally tell the way your mind works when it comes to topics like this and it's not hard to understand the logic and I've explained it so many times and just by the way you post It's so obviously for anyone who's capable of thinking in depth(which everyone is). It's pretty much stuck in a loop, for example you criticize me for 'thinking he knows things about the mind' but yet every time I bring it up or explain a logic you just plain won't discuss it, why is that? not to mention you cannot answer simple questions, like that one. I mean yea you'll put the question in a little quote as to reply to it, but you won't actually reply to it you'll just use the 'evidence' protection mechanism.

    Here's another important point that I don't think I've mentioned yet. If I was really crazy and delirious like you constantly try and make me look then you could easily explain in simple detail why by pointing out the flaws in my logic. However.. Not you or anyone else on the forum has been able to do that and in order to do it you have to go into depth so no you can't generalize with the popular 'you're going off topic' defense mechanism because it's dodging which clearly shows you don't want to honestly and efficiently prove me wrong but instead is going to cheap to make it look as if you have.

    It's funny though because I can see that you're really running out of good ways to try and make me look foolish because you keep using the 'no evidence' mechanism and that seems to be all that you'll use. I mean I get that you're narrow minded and along with a few others that have posted here but.. I'll bet the majority of people who read this other then you understand what I'm talking about.

    But other then that in depth stuff there's still the fact that you have implied to me many times that you don't question what's 'official'. Oh and to reply to your question you asked about what other evidence hasn't been released, there's tons!! You just don't consider it evidence because it's not 'Official' and the establishment won't let it through because it's against their agenda and there has been many attempts to get evidence published in congress.

    But that won't register in your mind and you refuse to research it because you're sub-conscious mind WON'T ALLOW IT. In other words the establishment has you successfully deceived, brainwashed, conditioned... It really is that simple.

  3. #723

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    Just when I thought this thread was dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    You have no idea how government works and how politicians can be bought off by people. Tons of research on the Internet has shown me that. You haven't done any research on it and you have been brainwashed and conditioned to believe whatever the official story may be. Did you know that the majority of the deceived population are deceived because they only know the governments side of the story?(through mainstream media, propaganda, etc... It's everywhere unless you go to alternative sources on your own but you wouldn't have a clue what that means).
    What if everyone on the internet has also been bought off? That would make you part of the "brainwashed and conditioned" K-man.

  4. #724

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenerationW View Post
    Just when I thought this thread was dead...
    Kamuix was picked up by aliens and taken off-world. The abduction was, of course, covered up by the government. Or so Kamoo claims.

    Unfortunately, while he had all this interstellar time on his hands, Kamuix was unable (either too lazy or incapable) to once again come up with any verifiable evidence to support his government conspiracy claims. Instead, he spent his time picking his nose and recycled his earlier posts. He mentions "tons" of research, but offers nothing credible. He wants everyone else to do the homework he is just too lazy to do. He still worries about the shaky appearance of his mental health, but then grandstands about his self-assumed mental prowess. He has no clue what verifiable evidence is. That or the challenge to produce some must be terrifying to him.

    Nothing new; same old deflections and avoidance, and, of course, no evidence. It's possible that Kamoo could entertain the idea that there is no such evidence to back up his claims because no such conspiracy actually exists, but at this point in time he has invested his identity in his conspiracy beliefs, and any admission otherwise would be crushing for him. It would likely destroy him.

    Too bad, so sad...

    So Kamoo, when do you get around to providing the verifiable evidence? Or, better yet, when are you going to admit you have none?

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    Kamuix was picked up by aliens and taken off-world. The abduction was, of course, covered up by the government. Or so Kamoo claims.

    Unfortunately, while he had all this interstellar time on his hands, Kamuix was unable (either too lazy or incapable) to once again come up with any verifiable evidence to support his government conspiracy claims. Instead, he spent his time picking his nose and recycled his earlier posts. He mentions "tons" of research, but offers nothing credible. He wants everyone else to do the homework he is just too lazy to do. He still worries about the shaky appearance of his mental health, but then grandstands about his self-assumed mental prowess. He has no clue what verifiable evidence is. That or the challenge to produce some must be terrifying to him.

    Nothing new; same old deflections and avoidance, and, of course, no evidence. It's possible that Kamoo could entertain the idea that there is no such evidence to back up his claims because no such conspiracy actually exists, but at this point in time he has invested his identity in his conspiracy beliefs, and any admission otherwise would be crushing for him. It would likely destroy him.

    Too bad, so sad...

    So Kamoo, when do you get around to providing the verifiable evidence? Or, better yet, when are you going to admit you have none?
    But don't you ever wonder why everyone in this "Great country" have become so greedy and self obsessed? do you think this country was once great because of people like you. If you were to ask me when people like that start to populate society it's usually going down a very dangerous disfunctional road! People who are distant from their loved ones(an educated guess), when things start to get tougher, you'll see.

    Seriously guys, I know I seemed a little angry but I was like you guys just a few years back and throughout elementary school and high school I believed everything they told me, I believed that we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11 and I thought that the only way to be successful was to go to college but honestly their are soo many lies that we're being taught in school it's unbelievable.

    I know it's hard to accept when you first look into this stuff because honestly no one wants to believe that these big corporations have been lying to us for political gain but honestly it's because of denial that we're still in this situation. Honestly I've been in your shoes and I went though the whole denial stage for a bit a couple years back but trust me you'll thank yourself when you wake up to the truth.

    Honestly here are the best documentaries:

    Loose change, pretty much goes through all the evidence on staged 9/11 attack and trust me you have to actually sit back and watch the whole thing with an open mind to really see the reality of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28QukKjwLtI

    The Obama deception which explains how big corporations paid for obamas campaign which is one of the most deceiving things in history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

    The college conspiracy which explains how we're pretty much brainwashed through school that in order to be successful you have to go to college: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

    How weed won the west which explains the fraudulent war on drugs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YHZco3bKT0

    This is probably one of the most important things I'll tell you Guys, all of your behaviors points at an ego. The problem with having too large of an ego is that you quickly undermined the things that really make life worth living. But the problem is that we've been brought into a society that leads you to beleive that it's all about looks, how you dress, what you drive, what job you have, how much money, etc.. In other words, the bigger your ego is, the more greedy and selfish and distant you tend to become. It's basic Psychology!
    Last edited by Kamuix; 2012-Feb-03 at 16:28.

  6. #726

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    Seriously guys, I know I seemed a little angry but I was like you guys just a few years back and throughout elementary school and high school I believed everything they told me, I believed that we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11 and I thought that the only way to be successful was to go to college but honestly their are soo many lies that we're being taught in school it's unbelievable
    I am so pissed! Elementary school sold me a huge bill of goods with that 1+1=2 stuff. And going right back to the beginning, who knows what nefarious things doctors to do expecting mothers?

    Everyone's in on it!!!

  7. #727

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    But don't you ever wonder why everyone in this "Great country" have become so greedy and self obsessed?
    You know everyone in the country?

    Seriously guys, I know I seemed a little angry but I was like you guys just a few years back and throughout elementary school and high school I believed everything they told me, I believed that we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11 and I thought that the only way to be successful was to go to college but honestly their are soo many lies that we're being taught in school it's unbelievable.
    So why not illustrate one of these "lies" and provide the corroborating verifiable evidence to back up your claim. No conspiracy videos, please.

    Honestly here are the best documentaries:
    Same videos, posted over and over. Do you market this stuff Kamoo? Do they pay you to promote it?

    The problem with having too large of an ego is that you quickly undermined the things that really make life worth living.
    Like what? Endlessly promoting various conspiracies and their associated drivel?

    In other words, the bigger your ego is, the more greedy and selfish and distant you tend to become. It's basic Psychology!
    Get over yourself.

    How about that verifiable evidence indicating a government conspiracy regarding 9/11? It's been over ten years; surely you have something more than the same dull list of conspiracy cartoons, no?

    I guess not.

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    You're such an idiot lol.. you're just assuming it's paranoia because you don't want to look into it.

    The stupid people like you in this society is the reason we have a system that's collapsing you just sit their and buy into all the propaganda that's fed to you in school and in media and you're just too narrow minded and too fucking brainwashed and retarted.

    ^@ Generation

    Griss:

    You want government released evidence. The 9/11 commission report isn't actually evidence it's just a US government theory but to you it is because our government released it and said it was, right? Unless our own establishment releases something and calls it evidence that means it's evidence to you. As proof that this is true I asked you if the 9.11 commission report was evidence to you and you dodged the question.

    I'm just scared that because people like you everywhere are buying into government propaganda and are literally being lead by a system that's collapsing. Don't you fucking get it? We're losing all of our constitutional rights, jobs are constantly being lost, big corrupt corporations are everywhere and growing while small businesses are being run out, the middle class is being pushed into the lower class while people are becoming poorer and poorer, gasoline and other costs are going up and the cost of living is going up, illegal unconstitutional wars are being expanded and the value of our dollar is going down. And people like you aren't helping because you can't even have a discussion without manipulating the conversation in every way possible to try and make me look crazy and the only reason why people are on your side is because it's popular to buy into everything the system tells you rather then having an open mind or to just have a balanced discussion.

    Why would you look up to and beleive a system that's doing this to it's people without question? I'll bet when you were a little boy you were the one who ratted people out and continued to judge other people while you remained to be "the good one" who did whatever the teacher said and now whatever the system tells you.

    In other words if this is true no offence but you're weak minded and as long as you're willing to be lead by other people and let other people tell you how to think rather than thinking for yourself you'll just be a walking zombie.

    When you learn to start thinking for yourself and being who you truly are you'll learn what it is to be open-minded, until then i don't know.. :S
    Last edited by Kamuix; 2012-Feb-03 at 19:13.

  9. #729

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    I resent that comment! I am NOT paranoid, it's just that everyone is out to get me.

  10. #730

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    Griss:

    You want government released evidence.
    C'mon K'moo, you recycle this statement over and over - even though I've indicated otherwise in many previous posts. I have demanded that you produce verifiable evidence. If you infer a government conspiracy, then why would you assume "government" evidence? I have not asked for "government" evidence from you; independent sources are fine - so long as the evidence is real and can be examined, tested, verified and/or refuted. The repetition of your flawed line of thinking is indicative of your avoidance of the fact that you have no such evidence. It's abundantly clear that you don't even comprehend what verifiable evidence is. That's why you hide behind your cut-and-paste response: to avoid the reality that you can't produce anything remotely substantive to support your otherwise baseless assertion.

    I'm just scared that because people like you everywhere are buying into government propaganda and are literally being lead by a system that's collapsing. Don't you fucking get it?
    Oh I fucking get it. You are afraid, and the depths of your neuroses are so extreme that you can no longer even accept that other people are not buckling under the paranoid terrors that you are suffering from. Your anxieties are well illustrated by the airing of your broad catalogue of conspiracy beliefs, your fears over the "system" collapsing and your nebulous dread over diminished constitutional rights, job losses and the value of the dollar. You really don't need my help in making you look crazy; you do that all by yourself quite convincingly.

    The rest of the post is typical drivel - further avoidance of the fact that you have no evidence of any government 9/11 conspiracy. Over ten years on and you can't produce a thing. Your only recourse is to call people walking zombies when it is you who walks this earth in fear of unfounded phantoms and subterfuge.

    Why don't you get beyond the baring of your deepest fears and hysteria and start producing your verifiable evidence to support your assertions of government involvement in the events of 9/11? That, or finally admit that you have absolutely no such evidence whatsoever.
    Last edited by gristle; 2012-Feb-04 at 00:47.

  11. Default

    Recycled it for a good reason and I won't bother explaining that again.

    And you're kind of right I am afraid, but I try not to let it get to me. It's just alittle frustrating dealing with the kind of people who are the reason why politicians get away with what they do. They depend on people with narrow minds like you who by the way couldn't even tell me what being open-minded means.

    Griss if our politicians are really doing what's in our best interests then why is the cost of living going up? why is the economy crashing faster and faster? why are the poor getting poorer? why are protests growing while the police state grows? why is crime going up? why are wars expanding? I could go on...

    And about your evidence thing, remember when I asked you if you considered the 9/11 commission report to be evidence and you wouldn't answer? let me explain the evidence thing to you.

    So we know this:

    You automatically consider things like the 9/11 commission report to be evidence because it was released by the US government and shown to us in the media, that's proof to you.
    If someone claims that something or many things in that report are not true, they must show evidence.

    So in other words, our government or corporate controlled media must release or admit that it lied to us in order to prove to you that...

    This is how retarted your logic is.

  12. #732

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    Recycled it for a good reason and I won't bother explaining that again.
    You mean that you have no reliable verifiable evidence to support your conspiracy claims. So why don't you just come out and say it for yourself? Show some backbone already.

    And you're kind of right I am afraid, but I try not to let it get to me. It's just alittle frustrating dealing with the kind of people who are the reason why politicians get away with what they do. They depend on people with narrow minds like you who by the way couldn't even tell me what being open-minded means.
    You have clear difficulty staying on topic K'moo. Based on your lack of evidence, your fears are unfounded. You go on to call me narrow-minded in the absence of you providing even the most minimal level of evidence. It's you who has failed to change any minds. You just want blind faith in what you say, but you are not going to ever get that from me. Your bisected view of the world - you versus the politicians - is intellectually bankrupt, and you presume to believe that this corrupt impression of reality applies to everyone. It doesn't. This is your illness and no one else is required to participate - regardless of your personal collection of paranoid beliefs and phobias.

    And about your evidence thing, remember when I asked you if you considered the 9/11 commission report to be evidence and you wouldn't answer?
    On the contrary, I did answer. Many times. Either you failed to pay attention, can't comprehend the answer, or simply want to play superficial games. Besides, you would not have a clue about what is included in the Commission Report because you have not read it, so why should anyone be expected to defend it to you? The object of someone making a claim for the existence of a conspiracy is that they prove it. You can't prove the existence of the government conspiracy that you claim exists. That's your failing, and yours alone.

    You automatically consider things like the 9/11 commission report to be evidence because it was released by the US government and shown to us in the media, that's proof to you.
    If someone claims that something or many things in that report are not true, they must show evidence.
    As noted above, you have failed to refute the Commission Report. You have not read it. You make claims you can't support. That's all you do here because you are incapable of making a reasoned case for your views. In the end, all you have are your unsupported, subjective and irrational beliefs founded on your fears of the world.

    This is how retarted your logic is.
    Last edited by gristle; 2012-Feb-04 at 19:51.

  13. Default

    All you said in all of your separate responces was the same thing worded differently and I already gave you a responce to it:

    And about your evidence thing, remember when I asked you if you considered the 9/11 commission report to be evidence and you wouldn't answer? let me explain the evidence thing to you.

    So we know this:

    You automatically consider things like the 9/11 commission report to be evidence because it was released by the US government and shown to us in the media, that's proof to you.
    If someone claims that something or many things in that report are not true, they must show evidence.

    So in other words, our government or corporate controlled media must release or admit that it lied to us in order to prove to you that...

    This is how retarted your logic is.

    EDIT: why do you keep beating around the bush? why don't you just admit that there's no evidence that everything the government tells you through the mainstream media is automatically true?
    Last edited by Kamuix; 2012-Feb-05 at 13:29.

  14. #734

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamuix View Post
    All you said in all of your separate responces was the same thing worded differently and I already gave you a responce to it
    No, you have not provided a response. You've engaged in a shallow and poorly thought-out diversion from the obvious fact that you have no supporting evidence to back up your claim of a government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11.

    So we know this:

    You automatically consider things like the 9/11 commission report to be evidence because it was released by the US government and shown to us in the media, that's proof to you.
    If someone claims that something or many things in that report are not true, they must show evidence.

    So in other words, our government or corporate controlled media must release or admit that it lied to us in order to prove to you that...
    More recycled posts from you. Why don't you actually show verifiable evidence that refutes the claims of the government and the media? That would by far be the surest way to illustrate your accusation. Unfortunately, you simply don't comprehend the nature of verifiable evidence, and as such, have none. You've had over ten years to compile more than what amounts to your collection of vague suspicions.

    K'moo, you are the one making a claim: you are accusing the government of engaging in a massive cover-up and complicity in the events of 9/11. As it is your claim (and your belief), you are the one required to show actual verifiable evidence to support that assertion. Anything less and all we have is you airing your myriad of fears and unsupported personal beliefs. That's not evidence, that's your personal delusion.

    EDIT: why do you keep beating around the bush? why don't you just admit that there's no evidence that everything the government tells you through the mainstream media is automatically true?
    As I have noted throughout this thread, I've taken no position. As you have made a claim about the existence of a conspiracy, the burden of proof is entirely upon you to prove your assertion. You have failed time and time again to do so. You have failed to admit that you can't support your claim. You have failed to admit that you're claim is merely a personal emotional belief which has no factual basis. In short, you have nothing.

    Where is the evidence for your conspiracy claims K'moo?

  15. Default

    And yet again, all you said in all of your separate responces was the same thing worded differently and I already gave you a responce to it. And accusing me of not responding to do which I most obviously did...

    Read this carefully:

    You automatically consider things like the 9/11 commission report to be evidence because it was released by the US government and shown to us in the media, that's proof to you.
    If someone claims that something or many things in that report are not true, they must show evidence.

    So in other words, our government or corporate controlled media must release or admit that it lied to us in order to prove something like this OR the government must release a document that prooves that they infact lied


    Do you see what i'm saying? According to you whatever evidence I show you must be backed by the government. But you see tons of people in different professions anywhere from archetechs, scientists, doctors, professors, engineers, judges, military, police etc.etc have come out against the official 9/11 story and other things do and not to do with 9/11. Not to mention all the people who were there and witnessed different things. But you have to research these things because the mainstream media doesn't report on it and instead labels anyone who comes out against 9/11 a conspiracy whatever. Don't you get it? I'm not asking you to beleive me, i'm asking you to think for yourself instead of beleiving whatever you're told without question!!! There's also tons of people who are affriad to come out because look what happends when people do.

    But back to the evidence thing.. You want media/government backed evidence, THAT'S the problem. Imagin trying to convict someone of... the murder of someone, and no matter how much evidence YOU have against him, the only way to convict him is if the accused murderer provides or approves evidence against himself. Of course in this case we're dealing with a growing government and large corporations who have much influence over the media/education etc.. But THAT'S Griss logic right there.

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