September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[gristle]

I wasn't talking to you. You're way too far gone. Only time will wake you up now and trust me it will.

Produce your evidence Kamuix. That's the challenge for you to live up to, or finally admit that you have none at all. Finally admit that your conspiracy beliefs are a product of your mind and not based on any facts or verifiable evidence. Don't even try to wiggle your way out by yapping on about some untold future possibility. You have no evidence to back that fantasy up either.

[Kamuix]

Oh now it's a fantasy? Because I cannot provide the evidence you're looking for(which is impossible to provide since what's considered official evidence is under the control of our controllers) It would be like having an abusive father who beats his kids, but in order for the son to prove to his sister(who is also being abused) that their father is abusive, she demands evidence produced by the father in order to not just believe it's abuse, but to even consider that she might be an abused child anything but a fantasy. Do you understand that logic? you're the sister.. there's so many things about the way you argue that are fucked up but because of the way you manipulate your posts it kind of seems like you have a point, but once you look at it in a little big of depth it's easy for anyone see through your narrow minded stupid pretty much one argument that you reword each time. And not only that but because i cannot show what you call evidence that means it's a huge fantasy.. See that's how it works in your mind isn't it? And that's far from the end of it.

BTW I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have a feeling somewhere in you're mind you know somethings up, because you won't give up on this thread, If i was really just a crazy delirious person and you really thought I was than you wouldn't of gone this far and spent this much time on it. And if you're so right than why do you post in suck a pathological manipulating way, that and you won't answer questions(instead accuse me of going off topic), you literally manipulate like my one of my ex girlfriends. You won't argue in any depth, and you won't stop generalizing to the max(which is just the opposite of going into depth actually). Which actually raises another important point, if much of the population thought the way you did, wouldn't that be an easy bunch of people to deceive? Watch guys he won't address this or discuss anything I've said here. Why? because I'm going off topic? but if I'm so crazy and Grissie knows what he's talking about than what is their to loose? why not go into depth and explain exactly why I'm wrong in detail instead of Generalizing or using One liners to avoid having to address it. Like for example "You just don't get it do you Kamuix, you must show evidence for your assertions" He'll reword that a million times. By the way it's actually wasting more of his time to argue the same point over and over and to just explain why I'm wrong in detail since no one has been able to yet, in case you still support the "you're going off topic" Generalized argument.

I'm not trying to get through to Grissie anymore guys, it's the other posters who I know don't have a mind as narrow as him. And i don't want other posters dragged into his narrow minded way of thinking/arguing.

Also remember a couple of pages ago when you were fucked up enough to accuse me of not answering you're questions when at the exact same time you were avoiding answering one of my questions that I clearly asked you to answer?

Look at this guys:

Oh.. but there's another question you have to answer and that is, why is that just because i haven't shown what you call proof it's not allowed to be discussed? See i support discussing it but you obviously think it shouldn't be discussed unless your type of proof is shown, why is that?

Watch guys.. he won't address or answer the question.

His response after avoiding the question:

Watch guys.. he won't address or answer the question.

This is so you Kamuix.

See.. now later on he did put my question is quotes as to pretend to address it, but look closely:

why is that just because i haven't shown what you call proof you won't discuss it?

Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11. The burden of proof is on you to support your claims. If you don't have verifiable evidence, admit it and state that all you are expressing is your mere opinion, and nothing more.

That's all terribly difficult for you to understand.

My response:

Here's a good example, actually this is even more fucked up because you answer my question by saying "Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11." You created the illusion that you answered the question, but I asked you why you're not even willing to discuss it not why i have to show what you call evidence. It's so fucked because you quote me on everything as to discuss it, but you don't even address it properly you just got back to saying the same narrow minded thing.

But you don't need me to explain it.. just look at it with some depth it takes next to no brain power just less narrow mindedness nonsense.

This is just once example of how much he can manipulate things possibly without people picking up on it..

[PinkLucy]

Kamuix, I respect Gristle's intelligence and perseverence. I don't have the energy to address you point by point the way he does.

[Kamuix]

He doesn't address me point by point, he quotes me point by point but he says the same thing each time. You've already refused to answer simple questions I've asked with the same excuse he used. Come on Lucy..

EDIT: Lucy, you don't have to address everything, but you(like him) haven't actually address any of me in depth point with any depth. Generalizing with "you're going off topic" or "show evidence" Is just a way of avoiding what your sub-conscious mind doesn't want your conscious mind to go. Like if much of your well being and state of though depends on curtain beliefs that may be threatened by it.

But don't you see? it's people like this and others that stop real change in this world from actually happening because the majority is in denial and others are just not awake yet etc..

Also Lucy what about what I just posted? no comment regarding it? just going to avoid it and try and compliment Grissie on nothing?

Also you could easily flip that and say well it's a waste of time, but obviously you don't think it is..

[PinkLucy]

What question have I refused to answer? I've looked at your stuff, I don't find any of it convincing.

[Kamuix]

The stuff I've shown is more than enough for anyone to questions the government. Why do you have such faith in government? After they lie over and over, do fraudulent things and get caught over and over(not including 9.11) And yet you still think that 9/11 was not staged?

Here's a question then, in general do you still think that the United States was attacked on 9/11 by terrorists and that their were not bombs placed in those buildings?
2. Do you think that a fire was the reason WTC 7 collapsed and that placed explosives had nothing to do with it?

I don't know what to say.. you say that everything I've shown isn't convincing and therefor you must generally(saying that because you may not believe everything the government says) believe the governments side of the story. I don't know... everything points to huge government corruption in my mind. not just this 9/11 stuff.

here's another question..

Do you believe that obama has or is trying to bring real for the better change to the country? and that he's not carrying on the exact same agenda that bush had?

[PinkLucy]

I did not say I have faith in government. I said what you showed me was not convincing. No, I don't think 9/11 was staged. Yes, I think a plane hit the buildings. That doesn't mean I think the US government is perfect. But what you have shown me are far-fetched theories and barely linked coincidences that prove nothing.

And no, I don't think Obama is carrying on Bush's agenda. But again, that doesn't mean I think he's perfect.

[Kamuix]

Alright just though i'd ask..

I was never trying to imply that you think that the government is perfect BTW. that's why I always say in general. But if you're not politically involved, how are you so sure that you're not being deceived?

[Second_in_pie]

Alright just though i'd ask..

I was never trying to imply that you think that the government is perfect BTW. that's why I always say in general. But if you're not politically involved, how are you so sure that you're not being deceived?

1. Because they fully denied it.

2. Because we've had hundreds of experts in the fields of politics, engineering, and aviation that said everything pointed to a plane hijacked by terrorists crashing into the WTC and Pentagon, bringing down the twin towers and WTC 7.

3. Because terrorists have claimed the attacks as their doing

4. Because the US government has little good reason to have committed the attack, who's planning naturally would have had to occurred long before George Bush swept the political stage with his nationalist and aggressive foreign policies.

5. Because not a single person has come forward and given us hard firsthand evidence that it was actually an inside job. And all that exists is speculation and a very fringe group of scientists that are mostly being led by their own ideas before their science, very similar to Global Warming sceptics.

6. The economics don't work. Any idiot could see that a very expensive and hushed up operation on top of what's now trillions of dollars out of operation within Afghanistan and Iraq vastly outweighs any benefits that could come out of it. You say they wanted oil? Afghanistan has negligible oil reserves, while the invasion of Iraq has brought little new oil into US pockets, surely not over a trillion dollar's worth. So the only explanation is that hundreds of organizing bureaucrats are just evil, willing to murder their own people for at most trivial gains at the least absolutely no logical gain whatsoever.
You may be tempted to bring up Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, but that comparison would be false. In both cases, the public knew fully well who was behind the abductions and displacement and murders, the leaders of whom paraded out in full colours:
In the Nazi mindset, Jews, Roma, homosexuals and disabled people were not fit to live on the earth and had to be purged from society.
In Soviet Russia, the starvation of millions was a necessary evil to keep the country's economy moving strong.
In the US, the outright murder of 3000 random US citizens was essential in... well nothing really. They got some extra international wiggle room that has given them no new standing on the international stage (less, even,) has brought some important sectors of their economy, notably Airlines, to far higher levels of inefficiency, and lost them trillions of dollars in wars they were catapulted into after the attacks.

I'd go on, but I'd think that's enough.

[PinkLucy]

What he said.

[gristle]

Oh now it's a fantasy? Because I cannot provide the evidence you're looking for(which is impossible to provide since what's considered official evidence is under the control of our controllers)...

Yes, fantasy until you provide evidence to show otherwise. And not "official" evidence, but verifiable evidence. Since you claim that a conspiracy exists, you should have the evidence to back up that assertion.

It would be like having an abusive father who beats his kids, but in order for the son to prove to his sister(who is also being abused) that their father is abusive, she demands evidence produced by the father in order to not just believe it's abuse, but to even consider that she might be an abused child anything but a fantasy. Do you understand that logic?

Whatever you are imagining here, it has nothing to do with you proving your assertions concerning a government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11.

there's so many things about the way you argue that are fucked up but because of the way you manipulate your posts it kind of seems like you have a point, but once you look at it in a little big of depth it's easy for anyone see through your narrow minded stupid pretty much one argument that you reword each time.

What's a "a little big of depth?" Anyway, you appear to at least partially get that I want one thing, and that would be for you to provide verifiable evidence to back up your claims regarding your assertion of a government conspiracy behind the events of 9/11. Either start producing it, or admit that you have nothing.

And not only that but because i cannot show what you call evidence that means it's a huge fantasy.. See that's how it works in your mind isn't it? And that's far from the end of it.

No, that's how it works in your mind Kamuix. You expect others to simply accept what you say at face value. You expect your every utterance to taken as the truth. Your troubles begin when people like me ask you to back up your claims with evidence. Then you get defensive because you refuse to offer a clear account of what you claim took place, and provide no verifiable evidence to support such an account. The failing is all yours.

BTW I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have a feeling somewhere in you're mind you know somethings up, because you won't give up on this thread, If i was really just a crazy delirious person and you really thought I was than you wouldn't of gone this far and spent this much time on it.

Once again, your feelings are wrong. I'm challenging you to back up your conspiracy claims. You waste plenty time avoiding the effort, so why don't you finally come clean and just say that you have no evidence at all. Show some character already.

Watch guys he won't address this or discuss anything I've said here.

I am always addressing your comments by pointing out when you avoid providing the evidence to back up your conspiracy claims. Otherwise this post, like so many others of yours, is rant about how you feel so disrespected (poor thing). Why don't you finally produce the necessary goods, or admit that you have no evidence.

You won't argue in any depth...

Because you haven't provided anything of depth to argue about. All we have are your baseless assertions.

I'm not trying to get through to Grissie anymore guys, it's the other posters who I know don't have a mind as narrow as him. And i don't want other posters dragged into his narrow minded way of thinking/arguing.

If I'm challenging you to produce evidence to support your claims, and you refuse to do that, then you are not serving your own position. You are failing yourself.

Here's a good example, actually this is even more fucked up because you answer my question by saying "Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11." You created the illusion that you answered the question, but I asked you why you're not even willing to discuss it not why i have to show what you call evidence. It's so fucked because you quote me on everything as to discuss it, but you don't even address it properly you just got back to saying the same narrow minded thing.

I actually find this terribly funny. You actually failed to understand the nature of my response.

Kamuix, why should anyone be discussing your unsupported claim without you first providing evidence to validate that claim? What is this, a forum to discuss your personal beliefs? I think not. If you want your claim to be taken seriously, support it with verifiable evidence. Otherwise, just state that you don't have any corroborating evidence and that all you have is your mere opinion. By now, it's quite clear that you have very little value in your own opinion - particularly if you are so afraid of expressing that it alone is all you have regarding your 9/11 conspiracy daydreams.

Otherwise, start producing the necessary verifiable evidence to support your claims of a conspiracy.

[GenerationW]

5. Because not a single person has come forward and given us hard firsthand evidence that it was actually an inside job. And all that exists is speculation and a very fringe group of scientists that are mostly being led by their own ideas before their science, very similar to Global Warming sceptics.

I'll have to part ways on this one. While there are certainly nutbar G.W. skeptics, there are also many legitimate skeptics, and not just on the right. 9-11 skeptics, conversely, are almost universally ignored or ridiculed.

[PinkLucy]

Because GW skeptics have some evidential backing, 9/11 skeptics don't.

[Second_in_pie]

I'll have to part ways on this one. While there are certainly nutbar G.W. skeptics, there are also many legitimate skeptics, and not just on the right. 9-11 skeptics, conversely, are almost universally ignored or ridiculed.

But the number of global warming skeptics in the scientific community is vastly, vastly outnumbered by the amount of people who support the theory. I believe it's somewhere in the 99th percentage point of all scientists with an opinion on the matter. It's very similar for "9/11 skeptics," except for the fact that they have no hard evidence at all.

[GenerationW]

By GW "skeptics" I generally exclude those who completely deny its very existence.