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Southcore Financial Centre & Delta Toronto
18 York St, Toronto
Developer: GWL Realty Advisors, bcIMC

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Thread: Southcore Financial Ctr: Bremner Tower & Delta (GWL/bcIMC, 30 + 47s, KPMB & P+S/IBI)

  1. #301
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Downtown Toronto
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    Personally, I think it all looks disappointingly boring. 18 York is pretty dull by any standard (even its promised two-tone siding got chopped). Seeing it duplicate itself in the new office building is no fun, and the hotel is a bland bit of ordinary tarted up with an angle or two.
    The area's becoming mirrors reflecting mirrors, with not a whole lotta architecture going on. The lack of imagination and variety is getting a bit much - underscored by Infinity's plans to simply clone itself as well.
    Architecturally, I wish this area were a lot more bold and sensuous, given it's location as the front of the central city.
    My eye feels is starting to desire to see some stone, brick, concrete facades - something muscular, with voids and shadows, some strong lines and interesting texture. Something to offset the busy flatness of all these similar curtainwalls.


  2. #302

    Default

    Not sure why, but I like the concentration of glass, clean lines, large scale. Very American - which is fine.

  3. Default

    What I like about the Delta Toronto's design is that it's kinda interesting and since it's not overly exciting it's less likely to get dumbed down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildup View Post
    Not sure why, but I like the concentration of glass, clean lines, large scale. Very American - which is fine.
    I don't know. If we follow the design trends of the superpower, we'll always merely appear as an irrelevant vessel, "America Jr." I say we distinguish ourselves from the U.S. as much as possible; maybe follow the design trends of the Netherlands or Scandinavia.

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ward 27 Toronto Centre - Rosedale
    Posts
    7,827

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildup View Post
    Not sure why, but I like the concentration of glass, clean lines, large scale. Very American - which is fine.
    Really? To me, it looks more Asian. Buildings that would be in a Chinese business park or Dubai.

    I do think something much more grand could have been done along this area, but I'm not sure if that would have been a good thing or bad. I guess we won't know.

  6. Default

    So much empty land in this city that needs to be developed, lets stop nitpicking and get on with it.

    This is a good start.
    Learn Here about the Tallest Towers Under Construction in TorontoThe Toronto Skyscraper Blog!

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by taal View Post
    - could be one of the last commerical buildings to go up in a while (large buildings at least).
    I doubt that.

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    I see rooftop fins on both Southcore office tower renders, are they still going ahead with the fins on the PWC tower..or did they crap out.

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Those are some great renders. funny how they even included a rendered version of the FCP re-clad! haha.
    Seems like an interesting location for such a hotel. Maybe it's only hard imagining it now cause nothings really there yet.

    I feel like this side of town seems a little empty/industrialized. Mostly cause of the railway tracks and the lack of density here. this will soon change.

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveve View Post
    Those are some great renders. funny how they even included a rendered version of the FCP re-clad! haha.
    ...
    Yeah that is weird. These are professionals, creating a professional render. You would think they would do a better job at it. Not only did they leave the FCP re-clad still ongoing in their future view when these buildings are complete, they also distort that view to unrealistic proportions. Shoddy work. I'm an amateur and even I try and pay attention to the background, when I'm making a render.

  11. #311
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Y&E
    Posts
    6,066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Automation Gallery View Post
    I doubt that.
    Really why? Not sure if you recall the last time we had an office boom but toward the end buildings were going up spec i.e. no tenants (or very few) signed.

    I'm not saying the last tower to go up ever I mean in the next 5-10 years - also, large tower, I think some smaller ones may go up in the outer core.
    If I had a penny for every time someone asked me why I was looking up…

  12. #312

    Default

    The Toronto office market is a lot stronger than expected, though, with considerably lower vacancy rates than were predicted two years ago. Toronto has weathered the recent economic downturn better than just about any large city on Earth (with the possible exception of cities in China, although even they have had to suspend much of their construction activity).

    And we have been hearing rumours about possible activity involving both the 45 Bay site, and the next phase of Bay-Adelaide. Don't count the 16 York office tower out, either (although that one might not happen for several years).

    I expect that several large office towers will break ground in the next year, in addition to the Bremner Tower.
    Last edited by Mongo; 2010-Nov-27 at 13:53.

  13. #313

    Default

    What a bunch of dull buildings. I expected so much better. Well, wished for is probably more accurate.

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    The Toronto office market is a lot stronger than expected, though, with considerably lower vacancy rates than were predicted two years ago. Toronto has weathered the recent economic downturn better than just about any large city on Earth (with the possible exception of cities in China, although even they have had to suspend much of their construction activity).

    And we have been hearing rumours about possible activity involving both the 45 Bay site, and the next phase of Bay-Adelaide. Don't count the 16 York office tower out, either (although that one might not happen for several years).

    I expect that several large office towers will break ground in the next year, in addition to the Bremner Tower.

    Wow! I really hope you're right about several large towers breaking ground in the next year or two although to be honest, I don't know if the market is strong enough to have several large new leases signed up (and eventually absorb several million square feet of office space in three to four years). I of course hope you're right.

    Do you have specific information on certain corporates that are actively looking to get into new towers when their exising leases expire or are you basing your forecast on the general office market news from Colliers, etc.?

    The possible office towers that I know of are 45 Bay, Bay Adelaide II, the Ice office tower, 151 Front Street and Richmond Adelaide III. I also hope that the Govt office tower on Bay Street (880 Bay?) and the MARS tower on Uni & College get started a.s.a.p. Are there any other major sites?

    The fear I have is that almost of all these wil bel glass boxes; I don't believe in the renders that may show otherwise as the reality is that towers here end up looking boxy (i.e. the PWC tower; even the fins and double-toned glass thing didn't materialize).

  15. #315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CITY_LOVER View Post
    Do you have specific information on certain corporates that are actively looking to get into new towers when their exising leases expire or are you basing your forecast on the general office market news from Colliers, etc.?
    45 Bay

    Posted by Mongo

    Possible movement on 45 Bay?

    by WhipperSnapper on SSP:

    (quote) I can't keep this to myself anymore. I overheard something in regards to 45 Bay but I have no idea what it means. It covers [1 -- the site being sold] to [2 -- the tower as we know it going ahead soon]. In any case, there is movement behind the curtains. (end quote)

    [1] and [2] added by me, to distinguish two separate items
    Posted by Batman

    The base of 45 Bay will be the home of Toronto's new Coach Terminal.
    Posted by Interchange42

    If Batman is right... this is a very convenient location: it IS north of the Gardiner, and is in fact right up against Union Station. This is the parking lot immediately across Bay from the Air Canada Centre. It is also directly south of the GO Bus terminal once one has passed under the tracks. Finally, it is also immediately west of the condos at 18 Yonge, so it may need to be entirely covered and sound-proofed.

    What I wonder is whether it would need to be (at least) a double-decker terminal, with platforms on more than one level? Surely with the amount of space required on the site for office tower lobby, loading docks, other parking, etc., that buses here might need to be accommodated over two or more levels... possibly below the surface?
    Posted by Ed007Toronto

    I'm hearing bus terminal with office tower on top coming sooner than later.
    Posted by Hypnotoad

    This site is ideal for a major office tower. Directly across from the ACC and kiddie-corner to Union, it has as much development potential as the new buildings on York Street but with the added value of a Bay Street address. Ideally it will be further integrated into the path tCE place, Union and the ACC. As Telus and Southcore have shown, the land directly below the tracks can be integrated into the existing financial centre very effectively. There are development realities and some questions about the need for more office space in the core that are clearly important. But those questions are what turns a vision into a reality. As far as the vision goes, this site is one of the best vacant sites for a large scale office tower left in the core.

    As for the bus station component, it would probably make more sense to leave the ground floor of the Bay Street aside (across from the ACC) for office tower and the back end (abutting 18 Yonge) for the entrance to the bus station. Perhaps, as has been mentioned earlier, the bus station can exist underneath the rail tracks and be connected to the existing interim station just north of this proposed site.
    Bay-Adelaide next phase

    Posted by TOfan696

    the next phase will be an office tower designed by bruce kuwabara, it will see an entire redo of temperance street possibly in brick and renovations to cloud garden, with some potential for allowing natural light into the path system through sky lights. It will be a really exciting project and tranform the area
    Posted by Mongo

    Inside information? Or wishful thinking? UTers want to know.
    Posted by TOfan696

    Inside information, thats all i got right now
    General office tower activity

    Posted by yyzer

    I think there is a very good chance that we will see a couple more office towers, in addition to today's news about Bremner Tower....at least, those are the rumblings I have heard from an ICI friend of mine - no details though......
    Last edited by Mongo; 2010-Nov-27 at 15:09.

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