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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Here's a list of ministers that need to go even before this premier gets out of office:

Liz Sandals
Glenn Thibault
Bob Chiarelli
Steven Del Duca
Glen Murray
Deb Matthews

All of the portfolios these ministers are responsible for are a mess in one way or another. In Sandals case, everything she touches just gets worse than it was before.
 
Of these listed ministers, only Glen Murray is in a totally safe seat.

Agreed, Toronto Centre is probably the safest Liberal seat in Ontario. However, he won't be running for re-election year:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1417943/mpp-glen-murray-announces-on-twitter-he-wont-run-in-next-election/

My gut says that the Liberals become a third party in 2018. I think their remaining support base will be in downtown and midtown Toronto, with a few MPs in the inner suburbs and Peel region.
 
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Why the hate on Glen Murray? (honest question, he appears to me as a highly knowleadgeable on health/planning/transportation/environment and a true reformer, awkwardly having to work within the realm of politics)

Him electing to not re-run is unfortunate in my book.

Do people like Brad Duguid?

Fans of the Scarborough subway perhaps.
 
Why the hate on Glen Murray? (honest question, he appears to me as a highly knowleadgeable on health/planning/transportation/environment and a true reformer, awkwardly having to work within the realm of politics)

For starters, Glen Murray was one of the leading causes of the Scarborough subway debacle.
 
RE: Energy minister Glenn Thibeault admits Ontario messed up on hydro rates with bad decisions
Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but there were plenty of warnings along the way.
Huge amounts! I'm very pro alternate energy, been deeply aware of the technology for decades from a technical stance, but long ago learned to be pragmatic and not reactionary in promoting it. I closely watched the markets (the real determinant) and reputable albeit conservative quality news sources (FT, WSJ, Economist, etc) slowly turn to praising it and promoting the *competitive* aspect of it.

Six years ago, I moved to Guelph for personal reasons, and leaving Toronto, I was a centrist with reason to lean left. In Guelph, the 'Green Factor' was rabid and intense, they (majority at that time, since changed) were completely intoxicated by the sloganeering and mantra miming of it all. It reached a peak of absurdity for me when a pamphlet from Bullfrog Power came through the door proclaiming how (gist) "We've been instrumental in getting the price of electricity to rise in Ontario". I clenched my teeth and murmed: "You ffffing idiots! You haven't got a clue!" And I stated that to a number of surrounding Greenies and soon became known as a heretic. I could design and build systems for them, show them how to implement solar, wind and hydro systems, but that didn't matter. Since I wouldn't chant their mantra, I was 'not of the cloth'. Oh yes, I grew flower gardens while they planted freekin' soya plants, kale and quinoa on the front lawns.

And now they've blown their own platform! The Market has certainly moved-on from six years ago, and the likes of the FT, WSJ and Economist *hail* the competitive and progressive nature of alternate energy. And none of that is due to the likes of the mindless mantra wannabes. It's down to Science, economics and rational political decisions in many other nations.

Meantime, Ontario is penalizing the poor (how freakin' progressive is that, my Greenie Friends?), discouraging investment, and paying other jurisdictions and *solar monopolies* to produce expensive power while the poor pay for it.

You didn't have to be a Kevin O'Leary to see this coming. Often those who scream "Green" the loudest are the most pretentious and needing of identity to make up for lack of just plain common-sense.

And now Ontarians are going to vote for something even worse just to spite the present circus act. Send in the new clowns!

Edit to Add: Just double checking my claims, esp for the FT, which has gone from neutral reporting to actually touting and promoting alternate power, both for societal and investment benefit. This is the vanguard of change.

Whatever, there's huge amounts if you Google and include "FT" in the search (and get past the subscription wall), but this might amuse many of you, it stones two birds with one kill, and the math and technical explanation is excellent:

What if Trump’s wall were solar powered?
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/02/10/2184028/what-if-trumps-wall-were-solar-powered/

I have subscription cookies enabling my access, but I have tried a browser with them blocked, and the url appears to be open access. If not, enter the headline into Google, and it will link you non-subscription.

Perhaps we should be investing in a wall to the south, to keep out "guns and 'bad home-brays' "(hombres), and getting paid in rays.
 
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For starters, Glen Murray was one of the leading causes of the Scarborough subway debacle.
He was the Transportation Minister and was acting as the party's figurehead on the matter.

The SSE debacle would have happened regardless of who was Transportation Minister. I place the blame primarially on Kathleen Wynne and Brad Duguid, and of course the Liberal MPPs in Scarborough - they pushed for it to win seats.

So, if that were for starters, what else do we have to make the case against Glen Murray?
 
He was the Transportation Minister and was acting as the party's figurehead on the matter.

The SSE debacle would have happened regardless of who was Transportation Minister. I place the blame primarially on Kathleen Wynne and Brad Duguid, and of course the Liberal MPPs in Scarborough - they pushed for it to win seats.

So, if that were for starters, what else do we have to make the case against Glen Murray?

I'm reluctant to agree or disagree with Salsa or Wisla, but have to point out that it's very difficult to discern who is actually in charge at this time, and what input certain ministers had in the past. The more I Google, the less clear the answer becomes, but it will a good string of discussion, because even though it's late in the game, I see hope that Wynne will step down, and the Libs run with a much more electable leader. To be "more electable" probably means those with the least skeletons in the closet, at least as the public and press perceive.

A lot of persons have changed their stance over the years as per SSE, (Edit: And everyone is on record in this article making statements that totally contradict their present stance. They all come out looking like shid) and it's difficult to edit the following as essential clues might be lost, the water is so murky, and this particular debate will re-ignite, as well it should: So I post this in full, with full accreditation:
Proposed Scarborough subway extension comes with risks, city planner says
Oliver Moore
The Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Sep. 06, 2013 3:00AM EDT
Last updated Friday, Sep. 06, 2013 3:07AM EDT

The proposed subway extension in Scarborough does not mesh with the city’s broader transit picture and risks stranding local residents by not having enough stops, Toronto’s chief planner has warned.

Jennifer Keesmaat called Wednesday’s surprise announcement from Ontario Transportation Minister Glen Murray an attempt to “contort a plan” into a set amount of money.

The frank assessment comes as the city grapples with the fallout of Mr. Murray’s unexpected announcement that the province would push ahead unilaterally to build a short subway extension into the east end of Toronto.

The news was greeted with shock at city hall, where TTC chair Karen Stintz was unhappy at being sidelined, and by sniping from Ottawa that Mr. Murray was being “counterproductive.” Immediate concerns were raised about the validity of the plan’s engineering assumptions, as well as questions about who was in charge of transit planning in the region.

“They asked us for our input, we gave them our input,” Ms. Stintz noted on Thursday, referring to a council vote approving a longer subway on another route. “They chose something different.”

To these issues can be added the questions raised by Ms. Keesmaat, who has shown a willingness to ruffle feathers since being hired as chief planner in 2012.

“My concern is that we’re having a debate here that is very focused, but is not taking into account the need to build out an entire network across the city,” she said an interview. “You’re planning a network, you change one piece of the network and it has a whole variety of different implications. So the challenge with this exercise is that it’s talking about one line, which, you know, I would argue is not really a desirable way to plan transit.”

The original plan for the area was to replace the aging rapid-transit line beyond Kennedy subway station with light rail that would run north and intersect with an LRT planned for Sheppard Avenue. But Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and others argued it would be treating Scarborough residents as second class to give them anything but subways.

As the clamour built this summer, the provincial transit agency Metrolinx said it would stop work on the LRT until it had clarity from the city. Council then voted for a subway on a new route, conditional on securing additional funds, which have not materialized. On Wednesday, a clearly frustrated Mr. Murray said the province would revert to the LRT route and build a short subway extension from Kennedy station to Scarborough City Centre. The plan sparked a storm of comment and criticism.

On Thursday, Ms. Keesmaat took particular issue with the number of stations being mooted for the extension. Transit planners generally assume that people will walk to a station from within a radius of 500 metres, meaning that stations, ideally, should be no more than one kilometre apart.

The map mounted alongside Mr. Murray for his announcement depicted two stops on the 6.4-kilometre route, although he later said that was not necessarily representative of the final number. “The budget considers options for a multiple number of stations,” he told CBC radio on Thursday morning.

Mr. Murray’s office referred queries about how much this aspect of the project would cost to Metrolinx. A spokeswoman for the transit agency said it was too early to provide breakdowns on the cost or number of stations.

“It wouldn’t be serving the people of Scarborough, because a lot of them, they would have a subway going through their community but they wouldn’t actually be able to get on it,” Ms. Keesmaat said of the proposal as presented.

“We’ve never had a situation in building transit infrastructure where we haven’t gone well over the allotted contingency. So I would caution any kind of recommendation that didn’t build in the exact costing of the number of stations. The station is a very expensive part of the infrastructure and I would caution any plan proceeding that didn’t very carefully account for an appropriate number of stations, which I would argue should be five, based on the 500-metre radius.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...with-risks-city-planner-says/article14156337/
 
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I'll have to sidetrack this discussion for a moment because we have some breaking news: Kathleen's approval rating just sunk to a level I have never seen before- 11%

http://www.680news.com/2017/02/26/o...d-fall-third-party-status-next-election-poll/

I dont think there has been a leader (municipal, provincial, or federal) in the history of this country that has had an approval rating this low., even McGuinty wasnt this unpopular. Like I said before, she's going for 0% and there's nothing that can save her.
 
I'll have to sidetrack this discussion for a moment because we have some breaking news: Kathleen's approval rating just sunk to a level I have never seen before- 11%

http://www.680news.com/2017/02/26/o...d-fall-third-party-status-next-election-poll/

I dont think there has been a leader (municipal, provincial, or federal) in the history of this country that has had an approval rating this low., even McGuinty wasnt this unpopular. Like I said before, she's going for 0% and there's nothing that can save her.
That's no side-track, Amare, it's a turning point. She has to step down before she takes the whole ship down. That news is actually a few days old, Stun reported it yesterday, but the point remains: She can't remain. She guarantees the defeat of the Party. They may be toast anyway, but they have a chance with a new leader.

Edit: And if they're smart, (lol...no further comment on that) they'll pick someone untarnished. I really listened to Brown a few days back, I mean really listened to him, and his politics aside, he has trouble speaking, to the point of almost being an impediment, and Horwath just doesn't make sense. So if the Libs pick someone new, unblemished, and with a clear and positive message, they get another chance at winning again, the bar is set so low with the opposition.

Second Edit: I stated "I really listened to Brown a few days back, I mean really listened to him, and his politics aside, he has trouble speaking, to the point of almost being an impediment,".

Just Googled on that, and now I feel badly for the man, which one shouldn't, but when choosing a leader, these things are unavoidable to discuss, not the least as the individual has to make unpopular stands, and articulate them in commanding and unmistakable ways. Wynne certainly can't, neither can Horwarth, or Brown, through no fault of his own. He seems like a very nice guy....but that counts little in the ruthless world of politics:
Patrick Brown’s stuttering taught perseverance, drive, gave him strength


Patrick Brown struggled with speech issues until he was a teen, saying it was a tough experience but adversity made him stronger

[...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...ght-perseverance-drive-gave-him-strength.html
 
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Is his stuttering worse than Trudeau's "umms"?
Trudeau can read a script well, but when he talks on the fly he can't even spit out a sentence without the annoying pauses.
 
Is his stuttering worse than Trudeau's "umms"?
Trudeau can read a script well, but when he talks on the fly he can't even spit out a sentence without the annoying pauses.
I was waiting for a question like that. Trudeau's 'umms' are a feature, but not an impediment.

Brown has a diagnosed impediment. Like it or not, and I realize he fits your ilk, he has a problem commanding the language. If you can't take command of a spoken position, you can't lead. That's not my opinion, that's just the way it is.

Jean Chretien (who I'm sure you already have a position on) had a language limitation, in both French and English, but he was one of the most commanding leaders this nation has had in a century. He talked in riddles, "A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven..." and yet you knew exactly his point. And he was exactly right, btw. He was "proven" right. And btw, contrary to his claims, Powell was a liar, as the record shows Chretien and Graham clearly making the point to him before he claimed to be "shocked" by the lack of WMDs. But I digress.

Before you claim I'm being biased, Wynne doesn't have any kind of obvious speech impediment, other than talking constant nonsense. And Horwath talks in circles. Which makes my point: The ProvLibs only have to elect a new leader to have a good chance at winning again (not Wynneing again). Since there is nothing in their charter to permit deposing Wynne, then Wynne should just suck it up and resign, and admit she's a loser. Dammit, my patience with the woman and her cronies has long ago evaporated. And none of those cronies are fit to lead. It has to be someone fresh, respectable, and *commanding*.
 
Chretien really benefited from the sympathy support. Brown will likely try the same thing if anyone comes even close to commenting on his speech, we will pull out the Disability card. I not, he will self release his impediment to gain the "underdog who overcame difficulty" card.

In 2007 the Liberals played the Tory school funding thing to perfection. The whisper campaign was the you can't give Muslims there own school because they would breed terrorists. They kept that talk just below the surface, and we're never called on it. They face some of the same dangers in playing this issue.
 
I not, he will self release his impediment to gain the "underdog who overcame difficulty" card.
He already had some time ago in some of the political advertising feel-good videos he's done. I think they were posted in his facebook page, as that is where I remember watching it.
 

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