Toronto 88 Scott Street | 203.9m | 58s | Concert | P + S / IBI

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TheSix said:
Depends on the developer. I've had both extremes. For example, my most recent experience was with Berczy. I'm halfway up (of 12 floors) and the building was already registered, amenities open, carpet installed, etc. As purchasers, we need to demand better and use our wallets to make points. For example, I'll never purchase from Citizen again.
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You're competing with foreign buyers who don't care about any of that stuff so don't expect any changes until the market dies down and builders start marketing towards end users and not investors who won't even be living in the building.

As far as condos being incomplete at the point of occupancy, it's an unfortunate reality and why I will never buy new again. Been through it 3 or 4 times and it had progressively gotten worse with the amount of things developers tried to pull off. I love how Tridel, Daniels and some other developers do it. When you get your place, everything is ready to go.
 
TheKingEast said:
You're competing with foreign buyers who don't care about any of that stuff so don't expect any changes until the market dies down and builders start marketing towards end users and not investors who won't even be living in the building.
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That's definitely a factor, but it doesn't tell the full story. Urbancorp is now the poster child for what happens to developers who don't give a rat's ass about quality or delivering on promises. The way the market's been for the past few years, you'd think it would be impossible to build unsalable condos, but look at what happened to Urbancorp with Kingsclub. Urbancorp gained such a bad reputation that anyone who had the slightest idea of what was going on in the market steered far clear of them. Granted, their bankruptcy had as much to do with risking unsustainable debt loads, but if you can't sell out a project near Liberty Village, well, you've got more than just cash flow issues.

L Tower has had far more than its share of problems, some of which not hearsay but plainly visible to anyone looking at the exterior of the building. This does not reflect well on the developers. It's particularly alarming for what is supposed to be a luxury project. Urbancorp at least had the excuse that they were aiming at the bottom of the market.
 
There are a lot of biases against the L tower in this thread, no doubt about it since this is a thread about 88 Scott. As a previous owner of a unit in the L tower that is moving into 88 Scott, allow me to debunk some of the myths about L Tower and some potential problems I see with 88 Scott. I believe 88 is Concert's highest condo building to date (correct me if I am wrong), but I wouldn't be too quick to judge on the quality of the finishes and reliability of the infrastructure based on a few completed low-rise condos.

Whenever I see a picture with both L Tower and 88 Scott in it, I find the L Tower's design and shape more unique and attractive than 88. Condos with symmetrical square windows, in my opinion, would not age well and it would just get lost in the sea of other rectangular condos. My gf's father is a retired architect and he thinks that the L Tower's design is very iconic and stands out in Toronto's skyline. Ask anyone on the street who is not an owner of either condos and most would pick the L Tower based on design. Heck, the number of tourist taking pictures of the L Tower proves that point alone.

I don't know what crap people are spewing but I can definitely tell you that hallways and lobbies are complete since last year, despite being lackluster. Temporary construction lights were removed by Fall, amenities such as Gym and Pool were opened since December of 2015 and Summer of 2016 respectively. They recently added a game room too. Few problems people had in the beginning were constant fire alarms in the first year, but I moved in during second year and they fixed most of the problem by replacing all the defective detectors. In the winter, there were a few drunken guests that were pulling fire alarms or people calling the fire department because they thought the heat from the mechanical room blowing across the red aircraft warning lights look like fire on top of the building on a cold night. All the pipes in the units were replaced to prevent bursting and leaks. There was a night in the spring where a city water pipe burst and knocked down the power, but that is no fault of the building. My suite fortunately did not have many major deficiencies. My friends in other units had more but they were not that serious and were eventually rectified. Let's talk about elevators, there are 8 of them in total, 2 for low rise, 3 for mid, and 3 for high rise. They don't break down as frequent as the ones in Aura however they do sometime, but not to the point that it would drive people to move out. If two elevators were out, then it would probably affect 1/3 of the building's tenants. But if 2 elevators were out in 88, then that's half out of commission and will affect the everyone in the building. What really made the news was the crane being up for so long, but now they have taken it down and replaced it with something less of an eyesore on the top of the roof. You can barely see it from ground level, but even if you can, most people mistake it for a window washing machine.

I sold my unit in December 2016 for around $740/sqft but in just two months, the same unit on a lower floor than mine was sold for over-asking at $914/sqft. So there is definitely demand for this building. The standard features of each unit just blows 88 away hands down.
  • Miele appliances throughout vs mix and match appliances at 88
  • my unit had marble counter-tops in the kitchen, island, and throughout the whole washroom (floor, sink, shower) vs 88's Corian on some surfaces and regular porcelain tiles and wallpaper in the washroom
  • Engineered hardwood throughout vs laminate in living and carpet in bedroom at 88
I moved out due to personal reasons, nothing against the building. And if 88 wasn't close to my office, I would have never noticed this bland building.
 
The feature list is nice, but from the units I've seen, I'm not really that big of a fan of the finishes. If 88 Scott's finishes are anything like Berkzy I'd say 88 interiors > LTower. Not that big of a fan of the common areas or suite finishes at LTower Just my tastes though.
 
TheSix said:
Depends on the developer. I've had both extremes. For example, my most recent experience was with Berczy. I'm halfway up (of 12 floors) and the building was already registered, amenities open, carpet installed, etc. As purchasers, we need to demand better and use our wallets to make points. For example, I'll never purchase from Citizen again.
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That's law in BC and Concert Properties is/was a BC-based firm. Those are the rules they and all others have to play by in that Province and yet, buildings get built and the sky has never fallen. So why on earth won't Ontario require the same performance from our residential developers ?????
 
Youranthony1 said:
Surprised you ended up purchasing in 88 Scott. Our chat in the real estate thread and your post here has me questioning your legitimacy. Either way, your L Tower background information is interesting.
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Not purchasing yet, the intent is to rent for a year first, see how good the fit and finish is and reliability of the infrastructure then decide. I was venting over the value of the units in the real estate thread but I will have to live in it first to see if it really is worth the premium.

Anyway, 88 and L are the only two threads I lurk around since these two are the closest to my office. I come here for weekly updates on the progress of the development, not to read up on people bashing on the L; there are enough people doing that already in its own thread. This condo has its own good points too, such as concrete exterior walls for better sound and temperature regulation and practical unit layouts, and I like how people are enthusiastic about the building itself. If people have to put down another condo to justify their purchase, then it really makes me question the quality of the final product.

Let's stay on topic, I want to be living with kind neighbours :)
 
The profile of this building really lends itself perfectly in context to its surroundings, namely the setbacks of Brookfield Place and the layered facade of 1 King West. From certain vantage points, the roofline is appears much steeper and more dramatic than I had expected, which is adds a lot of character. IMO, many of the design choices for this project were deliberately tasteful. We need more like this.
 
dracolnyte said:
Not purchasing yet, the intent is to rent for a year first, see how good the fit and finish is and reliability of the infrastructure then decide. I was venting over the value of the units in the real estate thread but I will have to live in it first to see if it really is worth the premium.

Anyway, 88 and L are the only two threads I lurk around since these two are the closest to my office. I come here for weekly updates on the progress of the development, not to read up on people bashing on the L; there are enough people doing that already in its own thread. This condo has its own good points too, such as concrete exterior walls for better sound and temperature regulation and practical unit layouts, and I like how people are enthusiastic about the building itself. If people have to put down another condo to justify their purchase, then it really makes me question the quality of the final product.

Let's stay on topic, I want to be living with kind neighbours :)
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Just a note to be careful with assumptions, aka that commenters on 88 Scott or L are owners ("put down another condo to justify their purchase...."). L Tower and 88 Scott have earned their reputation far from owners alone.
 
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