AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
That is exactly right - the description basically supports your view that it is more the institution and less the actual building itself.
AoD
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Old City Hall Proposals
- Thread starter rdaner
- Start date
That is exactly right - the description basically supports your view that it is more the institution and less the actual building itself.
AoD
Skeezix
Senior Member
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The recitation of the heritage value is the reason why the site was designated a National Historic Site of Canada, and the heritage value is primarily in respect of the institution's ground-breaking role in women's health care. In contrast, Old City Hall was designated as a National Historic Site primarily in respect of its architecture and what its architecture represented:
Old Toronto City Hall and York County Court House was designated a national historic site in 1984 because this Richardsonian Romanesque structure is among Canada’s most important examples of monumentally scaled city halls; and because its superb downtown site, richly carved sandstone surfaces, and variety in colour and texture combine in a clear expression of the region’s late 19th century self-confidence.
The Old Toronto City Hall and York County Court House is one of Canada’s finest examples of Richardsonian Romanesque architecture. Its massive scale and monumental design reflect its dual function as city hall and court house, the increasing complexity of civic administration, and the desire of city politicians to convey the prosperity and rapid urbanization experienced by Toronto in the second half of the 19th century. Designed by local architect E.J. Lennox between 1883 and 1886, the City Hall and Court House took eleven years to construct, from 1889 to 1899. Its design used a variation of the Romanesque style developed by American architect H.H. Richardson, which was popular for public buildings during the 1880s. Numerous crafts- and trades-people were involved in its construction, including Robert McCausland Limited (stained glass) and George Agnew Reid (muralist). The Richardsonian Romanesque style is evident here in the massive scale and proportions of the building, the richly carved and coloured sandstone surfaces, and the repeated use of towers, round-arched openings, and arch-and-spandrel motifs. The building is dominated by a tall, off-centre clock tower that corresponds with the axis of Bay Street, the heart of the city’s financial power.
The Old Toronto City Hall and York County Court House is one of Canada’s finest examples of Richardsonian Romanesque architecture. Its massive scale and monumental design reflect its dual function as city hall and court house, the increasing complexity of civic administration, and the desire of city politicians to convey the prosperity and rapid urbanization experienced by Toronto in the second half of the 19th century. Designed by local architect E.J. Lennox between 1883 and 1886, the City Hall and Court House took eleven years to construct, from 1889 to 1899. Its design used a variation of the Romanesque style developed by American architect H.H. Richardson, which was popular for public buildings during the 1880s. Numerous crafts- and trades-people were involved in its construction, including Robert McCausland Limited (stained glass) and George Agnew Reid (muralist). The Richardsonian Romanesque style is evident here in the massive scale and proportions of the building, the richly carved and coloured sandstone surfaces, and the repeated use of towers, round-arched openings, and arch-and-spandrel motifs. The building is dominated by a tall, off-centre clock tower that corresponds with the axis of Bay Street, the heart of the city’s financial power.
CodeMonkey
Active Member
And thus, making it the 2nd building not fully complete by the Eaton's family. You got to admit there is an irony in them not able to tear down Old City Hall when they where planing the Eaton Center
CodeMonkey
Active Member
What other uses can they do with Old City Hall if they can't make it into a Mall, Museum or City Archive?
Johnny Au
Senior Member
It may end up becoming an Apple Store, which is not a mall per se.
It would be interesting to see the Old City Hall become the world's largest Apple Store. However, it would lead to complaints that such a historically significant building would end up being an electronics store. Note that Apple has some stores located in historic buildings as well, some being older and more venerable than the Old City Hall.
Tewder
Senior Member
No it wouldn't.
I appreciate what they do with heritage buildings but this is a historic civic building and should not be given away, no matter how alluring the retail brand.
Adjei
Senior Member
Only in Toronto would the thought of turning such a building into a mall come up. A freaking mall. You have one of the biggest malls in Toronto right next to it and you are thinking of turning it into another shopping mall? Like we need any more malls. Turn it into something which the citizens can be proud of.
Armour
Senior Member
Would you make an exception for a flagship Value Village?
salsa
Senior Member
Council shot down that idea a few days ago. There is no reason to talk about it anymore, so who cares.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
They turned the ground floor of the old, old city hall (St. Lawrence Market) into a marketplace. Why not do the same with the old city hall?
Kiddin'.
Kiddin'.
Daniel Tripp
New Member
They turned the ground floor of the old, old city hall (St. Lawrence Market) into a marketplace. Why not do the same with the old city hall?
Kiddin'.
Not the worst idea in the world!
adma
Superstar
Regarding the Museum of Toronto idea: because of the sheer size and scale of what we're dealing with, why not augment it with other municipal cultural-services departments--heck, when I think of it, Old City Hall could have potential as a "municipal 401 Richmond", if you get my drift...
CodeMonkey
Active Member
I don't think they'll start moving municipal departments/services back with all the excess space they have with the civic centres and Metro Hall. Personally, they should just lease it back out again as office space or for use in film/television production. They probably get good cash for upkeep of the building renting the office space back out, and renting out to film/television productions that needs a courtroom set?
diminutive
Active Member
I looked through a wiki list of "Old City Halls" in North America to gain some perspective on how ours could be repurposed.
Ottawa - Converted to govt office space
DC - Converted to court space
Boston - Converted to office space
Knoxville - Repurposed to a law school
Mobile - Converted to a Museum of Mobile
Bellingham - Now houses the Whatcom Museum
Richmond - Converted to office space
Tacoma - Vacant for 10 years, eventually converted to office space. Apparently the owners neglected the building and the city recently repurchased it.
Detroit - Demolished in 1961, which is a bit of a travesty.
This survey is troubled since it just looked at places called "Old City Hall," which obviously doesn't include cities whose old city halls simply weren't called "Old City Hall." Looking at major American cities that have an "old city hall" not currently in use by a municipal government, though:
Seattle - Previous city hall shared space with the local court, which took over after city hall moved.
Dallas - Various govt uses, including Police Headquarters. Seems to have been partially abandoned and is now being converted into a law school.
Phoenix - Now used for court houses (interestingly, where Miranda v Arizona, where 'miranda rights' come from, started here).
Austin - Has a newish looking city hall, but I can't figure out what was used previously.
New Orleans (Gallier Hall) - Seems to have a mishmash of uses including a convention centre, a theatre and a reception hall.
This list is hardly exhaustive I imagine, but it's a decent sample. I think they also show how difficult it is to convert these types of buildings. Superficially, lots of them were built by ambitious municipal governments and subsequently were too expensive for most uses. The most common fates seem to be conversion to court houses and leasing to office space. Many of those converted to office space seem to have had troubled economics. I imagine they'd be much less practical than new office buildings from a tenant POV.
P.S. I did not know that Cincinnati and Minneapolis have nearly identical looking city halls to us! Both are still in use as municipal buildings though.
Ottawa - Converted to govt office space
DC - Converted to court space
Boston - Converted to office space
Knoxville - Repurposed to a law school
Mobile - Converted to a Museum of Mobile
Bellingham - Now houses the Whatcom Museum
Richmond - Converted to office space
Tacoma - Vacant for 10 years, eventually converted to office space. Apparently the owners neglected the building and the city recently repurchased it.
Detroit - Demolished in 1961, which is a bit of a travesty.
This survey is troubled since it just looked at places called "Old City Hall," which obviously doesn't include cities whose old city halls simply weren't called "Old City Hall." Looking at major American cities that have an "old city hall" not currently in use by a municipal government, though:
Seattle - Previous city hall shared space with the local court, which took over after city hall moved.
Dallas - Various govt uses, including Police Headquarters. Seems to have been partially abandoned and is now being converted into a law school.
Phoenix - Now used for court houses (interestingly, where Miranda v Arizona, where 'miranda rights' come from, started here).
Austin - Has a newish looking city hall, but I can't figure out what was used previously.
New Orleans (Gallier Hall) - Seems to have a mishmash of uses including a convention centre, a theatre and a reception hall.
This list is hardly exhaustive I imagine, but it's a decent sample. I think they also show how difficult it is to convert these types of buildings. Superficially, lots of them were built by ambitious municipal governments and subsequently were too expensive for most uses. The most common fates seem to be conversion to court houses and leasing to office space. Many of those converted to office space seem to have had troubled economics. I imagine they'd be much less practical than new office buildings from a tenant POV.
P.S. I did not know that Cincinnati and Minneapolis have nearly identical looking city halls to us! Both are still in use as municipal buildings though.
TheDudeInToronto
New Member
I would prefer that the old city hall does not turn into a mall, or office space. It is a historic site. Many people have experienced the great building, and many should continue, it is a historical building and should not be renovated.