Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

cbrown2009 said:
Here are some questions I have. Why are people so interested in rerouting the LRT past two correctional facilities (on McLaughlin) with no potential for land redevelopment? Or to pulverize a river valley so it can end at a hospital?
Why not instead lobby to get it extended north on Main up to Bovaird? Or even Sandalwood? There's land on the west side of Hurontario north of Bovaird that could potentially see some redevelopment. Why not explore that a little more?
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Isn't it obvious?

These people are NIMBYs. NIMBYs are the same as Ford Nation. Anti-transit. Anti-progress. All they want is to keep their street (Main St in downtown Brampton) exactly the same (which by the way isn't all that historic and special--we aren't talking about ancient Rome here as was eloquently put earlier in this thread). It's just Brampton for crying out loud.

And so these people don't propose any logical or sensible routes for the LRT--which is clearly straight up Main St, at grade. They just want it anywhere away from their street. Penitentiaries? Little to no current transit ridership that the LRT could supplant and build off of? Little to no commercial development possibilities? Who cares! Just get that LRT away from my house.

Putting the LRT on McLaughlin is like Toronto building the Yonge subway not on Yonge, but on Parliament street instead. Wuh????

There is no understanding NIMBYs. So you ignore them and carry on.
 
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cbrown2009 said:
Here are some questions I have. Why are people so interested in rerouting the LRT past two correctional facilities (on McLaughlin) with no potential for land redevelopment? Or to pulverize a river valley so it can end at a hospital?
Why not instead lobby to get it extended north on Main up to Bovaird? Or even Sandalwood? There's land on the west side of Hurontario north of Bovaird that could potentially see some redevelopment. Why not explore that a little more?
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Probably because while most of Hurontario/Main can be very well served with BRT.......from, roughly, Vodden north you only need Zum/BRT-lite. The answer to one overspend/overbuild is not to pile on more overspend.

There may be limited development potential on th west side of Main north of Bovaird but it can't change the fact that the east side is predominantly back yard fences of homes facing into traditional suburban subdivisions.
 
According to Del Duca, a no vote for the LRT and it stops at Steeles.

Q: Would a no vote derail the project entirely?

A: If ultimately council decides they don’t want an LRT to run up to the Brampton GO station I will respect the wishes of council. From what I can tell at this point in time, that would mean the LRT would run from Port Credit GO up to Steeles Avenue at Shoppers World. And that would be the extent of the project and then we would get on with continuing to build the rest of the regional transit network. I personally believe that would be an enormous missed opportunity for Brampton.

Q: Is the province open to changing or redefining the proposed route?

A: I’ll respect the decision that council makes on July 8 but I am really not opening the door to extensive, ongoing negotiations about routes.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...rt-minister-weighs-in-on-brampton-lrt-debate/
 
I would be disappointed if Brampton City Council makes that decision, but it wouldn't stop me from loudly arguing for how any money saved by stopping at Shoppers World should be spent.

My choice would be on laying the fourth track on the Weston Sub between Nickle and Humberview. This would enable hourly 2WAD GO service between Bramalea and Union. This would directly benefit Brampton, just in a different way.

- Paul
 
I agree. Good to hear the Province saying take it or leave it at this point. I just wonder how much that would actually save though. Perhaps it can be used to build the East Bayfront LRT?
 
If Brampton Council does end up turning down the LRT north of Steeles, they would be very wise to include a provision to request that those funds that would have gone to the LRT be redirected to the next phase of their Zum implementation instead. At least the money stays within Brampton, and it's something they would have funded eventually anyway.
 
gweed123 said:
If Brampton Council does end up turning down the LRT north of Steeles, they would be very wise to include a provision to request that those funds that would have gone to the LRT be redirected to the next phase of their Zum implementation instead. At least the money stays within Brampton, and it's something they would have funded eventually anyway.
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I wondered if Del Duca's comment about "get on with building the rest of the Regional Network" was a deliberate way of saying, if you don't play, the money goes elsewhere. It would be quite unwise for Ontario to let municipalities redirect money by playing this game - but there's no harm in asking, I guess. It will be interesting to see just what level of hardball the province is playing.

My inexpert guess would be the amount is between $50M and $100M, which I get by taking the overall pricetag, assuming a certain proportion is overhead or fixed/sunk cost, and then taking an amount of the rest proportionate to the reduction in mileage. Definitely Ontario should reduce the project envelope by this amount, otherwise it will just get eaten up - projects seem to expand to fit the envelope available.

Zum is certainly a worthy project, but I wouldn't let this money go there - Brampton needs to come cap in hand and stand in line with other municipalities for municipal level BRT projects. I picked the GO project precisely because it's a provincial level, and not a municipal project in Brampton. But it's politically defensible to Brampton residents as money spent on their behalf, as opposed to playing true hardball and handing the funding to say, an expedited next leg for the Hamilton LRT.

- Paul
 
If Brampton is short-sighted to turn down free money, that money shouldn't be diverted to Zum. Truncate the LRT to Shopper's World and use the funds for a another LRT project.
 
JayBeeGooner said:
If Brampton is short-sighted to turn down free money, that money shouldn't be diverted to Zum. Truncate the LRT to Shopper's World and use the funds for a another LRT project.
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Far be it for me to tell the province how/where/when to spend their money but what you are advocating there is that Metrolinx decides what transit is built where and local government's input is valueless......that may be how it should be in your mind but it certainly has not been how it has been done to this point in time.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Or London's LRT
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It's way too early for that, they haven't even completed the studies determining if they want BRT or LRT.

I think this either gets refunded into Hamilton, or to East Bayfront LRT in Toronto.

Maybe the Bremner Streetcar that reappeared in headlines recently.
 
gweed123 said:
If Brampton Council does end up turning down the LRT north of Steeles, they would be very wise to include a provision to request that those funds that would have gone to the LRT be redirected to the next phase of their Zum implementation instead. At least the money stays within Brampton, and it's something they would have funded eventually anyway.
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If council turn this down, they get nothing for the extra funds that would be save not building the line.

That money should go to the next project on the list to be done. When it comes time for Zum, that is when they get their funding and not line jump as noted.

My greatest fear regarding Metrolinx from my 2006 report on it has already been fulfill and this will only reinforce it more with this decision not to build the line. As long as Metrolinx doesn't have the teeth and powers to override municipality from making changes to the "Regional Big Move Plan", everyone is going to get screw. There are only a few places where changes should take place, but this is not one of them.

We have see with the SRT becoming a Subway, not the LRT as plan costing Toronto Taxpayers Million of Dollars more to service less riders as well going into service 10 plus year later than plan. Also, takes badly need funds away to maintain the TTC network as well adding more service for everyone.

Its time Metrolinx starting doing a real business case for everything and forget about the interest of few people who have more to gain by pushing a pet project like staying in office, having funds going into their pockets on land development or paying off the city debit.

Bremner Line needs to stay dead.

The money can't go to any project outside the GTHA since it only belong there in the first place.
 
drum118 said:
My greatest fear regarding Metrolinx from my 2006 report on it has already been fulfill and this will only reinforce it more with this decision not to build the line. As long as Metrolinx doesn't have the teeth and powers to override municipality from making changes to the "Regional Big Move Plan", everyone is going to get screw. There are only a few places where changes should take place, but this is not one of them.
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So who, and how, decides when the regional body's plan needs to be changed? In one sentence you say that Metrolinx should be able to override any municipality from making changes to the ML plan....then in the very next sentence you note there are a few places where the plan needs changing....but (in your opinion) this is not one of them.

To me it's all or nothing....either you allow local issues/concerns to be addressed (eg. adding lots of infrastructure and a stop around the UP as it passed through [oops...stops] in Weston) or you say "this is the plan and we are building exactly this at the total whim/discretion of ML"....or if you are going to allow some/"a very few" changes then you have to be open to listen to every single municipality's concerns.
 
TOareaFan said:
So who, and how, decides when the regional body's plan needs to be changed? In one sentence you say that Metrolinx should be able to override any municipality from making changes to the ML plan....then in the very next sentence you note there are a few places where the plan needs changing....but (in your opinion) this is not one of them.

To me it's all or nothing....either you allow local issues/concerns to be addressed (eg. adding lots of infrastructure and a stop around the UP as it passed through [oops...stops] in Weston) or you say "this is the plan and we are building exactly this at the total whim/discretion of ML"....or if you are going to allow some/"a very few" changes then you have to be open to listen to every single municipality's concerns.
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The Regional plan was put together with no thought regarding local issues and adding a number of pet projects that made no sense. It was also done on a shoe string, not the real cost to do it. $90 B cut to $50 B before the larger expansion surface. No thought how to upgrade local transit service to build the "Big Move". Talk about having the "BIG MOVE" within 2 km of everyone, with no thought how to do that last 2 km and these are some of the few things that need to be change.

I saw the LRT in 2006 going to the north end of Brampton when the Bill came out to create Metrolinx.

I said in 2003 to do Transit in the GTA was $60 B by 2023. Today, you are looking at $150-$200 B if you are to HSR and to where, as well covering all of southern Ontario from Windsor to Kingston.

Since there is a major review of all projects due in 2016, one hope they get things right this time and not worry what the real cost going to be to do it as well the order of pet projects.

UPX has been a thorn for the Ontario Government from day one and more so for MTO since 2007 when they wanted to kill it off, but forced to do it by Cabinet.
 
^UPX is only one area where local interests were allowed to make changes to the plan.

The point is that either ML says "we will build it irrespective of local concerns" or "we will build it with local input into each project" saying that it will be one way sometimes and another way other times is not only confusing it is outright "unfair".
 
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