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hawc said:
Yup. SouthCore going strong. Guess the Gardiner isn't such a barrier after all.
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Doesn't mean that walking under it has gotten any more pleasant. It's a shame that the city is about to spend a billion dollars rehabilitating it, without much public realm improvements.
 
salsa said:
Doesn't mean that walking under [The Gardiner] has gotten any more pleasant.
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Everyone complains about walking under the Gardiner, but walking under the train tracks near Union Station it's a thousand times more unpleasant. It's dark and dingy and dirty and cramped and it takes forever to get through them. Walking under the Gardiner is fast and easy. Plus, I think the real unpleasantness there isn't the walk under the Gardiner, it's crossing the eight lanes of Lakeshore Boulevard with lights timed to cars. And that wouldn't change even if the Gardiner were gone. Walking under 20 train tracks and across 8 lanes of lakeshore is WAY worse than the elevated Gardiner itself.
 
hawc said:
Everyone complains about walking under the Gardiner, but walking under the train tracks near Union Station it's a thousand times more unpleasant. It's dark and dingy and dirty and cramped and it takes forever to get through them. Walking under the Gardiner is fast and easy. Plus, I think the real unpleasantness there isn't the walk under the Gardiner, it's crossing the eight lanes of Lakeshore Boulevard with lights timed to cars. And that wouldn't change even if the Gardiner were gone. Walking under 20 train tracks and across 8 lanes of lakeshore is WAY worse than the elevated Gardiner itself.
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Couldn't agree more!
 
That last picture with all the clean new buildings in the back ground makes the gardiner appear like an anchient ruin.
 
hawc said:
Everyone complains about walking under the Gardiner, but walking under the train tracks near Union Station it's a thousand times more unpleasant. It's dark and dingy and dirty and cramped and it takes forever to get through them.
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There are several alternative routes through Union station that avoid these underpasses, however better lighting (like at the Dufferin underpass at Queen) would go a long way to improving them. In fact this article last year said that "the York Street tunnel is also set to see lighting improvements within the next few years".


I think the real unpleasantness there isn't the walk under the Gardiner, it's crossing the eight lanes of Lakeshore Boulevard with lights timed to cars. And that wouldn't change even if the Gardiner were gone.
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Crossing Lakeshore and walking under the Gardiner is the same thing. In my previous post I specifically mentioned public realm which has everything to do with Lakeshore Blvd. My most recent experience was at Spadina, where first I had to watchout for two lanes of turning cars.

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Then I get a sign that says "pedestrians cross at east side".

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Except there's no crosswalk to get to the east side either.

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Sorry, but there's a lot that can be done to improve the current situation. If only we had a mayor who cared about cyclists and pedestrians when he announces a plan to spend an extra $0.5 billion just to fix the highway a little faster. Don't even get me started with intersections east of Yonge.


Walking under the Gardiner is fast and easy.
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No it's not.



Walking under 20 train tracks and across 8 lanes of lakeshore is WAY worse than the elevated Gardiner itself.
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I don't hear people complaining about crossing University Ave. With the Gardiner comes on-ramps, off-ramps, ugliness, darkness, and lots of noise. With that combined with Lakeshore Blvd issues, I would prefer the rail underpass anytime.
 
salsa said:
No it's not.
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Yes it is.

Spadina is a nightmare and it's not the fault of the elevated Gardiner, it's the fault of not putting traffic signals at the beginning of the on ramp.

But... that's because the city planners have basically designated all of Spadina south of King to be one HUGE on ramp to the Gardiner westbound. It's not policed. And crossing it is like trying to cross a highway onramp mid way. Spadina is horrible. But all the other major downtown streets are signal controlled. And again, it's the Lakeshore and surface streets you're actually complaining about not the Elevated Expressway.

salsa said:
I would prefer the rail underpass anytime.
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I wouldn't.
 
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Spadina is ridiculous. Cycling by the curb only to find your lane and the next go onto the Gardiner is not a good experience in heavy traffic. Important pedestrian infrastructure looks to have been eliminated to make things easier for drivers. Cyclists weren't even considered. It's definitely not the kind of infrastructure you expect in downtown Toronto. I don't care that there are alternate routes to the waterfront; Spadina is a major street where people should be able to walk and cycle safely.
 
junctionist said:
Spadina is ridiculous. Cycling by the curb only to find your lane and the next go onto the Gardiner is not a good experience in heavy traffic. Important pedestrian infrastructure looks to have been eliminated to make things easier for drivers. Cyclists weren't even considered. It's definitely not the kind of infrastructure you expect in downtown Toronto. I don't care that there are alternate routes to the waterfront; Spadina is a major street where people should be able to walk and cycle safely.
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It will be. There are plans to reconfigure the whole lower portion of Spadina. It will involve creating a real crossing.
 
junctionist said:
Spadina is ridiculous. Cycling by the curb only to find your lane and the next go onto the Gardiner is not a good experience in heavy traffic. Important pedestrian infrastructure looks to have been eliminated to make things easier for drivers. Cyclists weren't even considered. It's definitely not the kind of infrastructure you expect in downtown Toronto. I don't care that there are alternate routes to the waterfront; Spadina is a major street where people should be able to walk and cycle safely.
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Isn't everything in this city geared towards the driver? It sure seems that way to me. There is no cycling path I would feel safe cycling besides the paths on the Islands. Pedestrians (especially downtowners) are third class citizens in Toronto and nobody cares what they have to say.
 
hawc said:
Everyone complains about walking under the Gardiner, but walking under the train tracks near Union Station it's a thousand times more unpleasant. It's dark and dingy and dirty and cramped and it takes forever to get through them. Walking under the Gardiner is fast and easy. Plus, I think the real unpleasantness there isn't the walk under the Gardiner, it's crossing the eight lanes of Lakeshore Boulevard with lights timed to cars. And that wouldn't change even if the Gardiner were gone. Walking under 20 train tracks and across 8 lanes of lakeshore is WAY worse than the elevated Gardiner itself.
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You really must be kidding right? Have you ever travelled to other cities and seen a well designed grand boulevard? NYC perhaps? Hell, even our own University Avenue? If they ripped down the Gardiner, you could have a truly beautiful lifeline running down there instead. Your post just makes me sad since I know there are others out there who share your opinion.
 
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