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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

There is nothing wrong with going on a European vacation, in fact I love Europe. But I also loved Disney World and Vegas. They are all completely different. One is not necessarily better than the other.

For me, that about says it all. Anyone who has been to Europe and Disney World and thinks, "one is not necessarily better than the other" is seriously messed up or very, very young. Cooltoronto, some of the stuff you write just blows my mind, and that's even taking into consideration that you are a 15 year old know it all.

You alone, a 15 year old, who has NEVER stepped foot in a casino, seems to know everything about casinos and their inner functions. You know how they're built and how they operate and, well, you just seem to have the inside scoop of someone who's dad owns casinos. So who knows, maybe you're some billionaire's son who really does know what's best for us. Well, either that or you're some kind of casino development genius. (Psychic maybe?)
 
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I don't know, that could describe a brothel too.

lol :p but I hope you get my point :)

This place is not going to attract the wrong crowd. adma is acting like family attractions, such as cruise ships and entertainment complexes, are not people who should be coming to Toronto for a vacation.
 
For me, that about says it all. Anyone who has been to Europe and Disney World and thinks, "one is not necessarily better than the other" is seriously messed up or very, very young. Cooltoronto, some of the stuff you write just blows my mind, and that's even taking into consideration that you are a 15 year old know it all.

You alone, a 15 year old, who has NEVER stepped foot in a casino, seem to know everything about casinos and their inner functions. You know how they're built and how they operate and, well, you just seem to have the inside scoop of someone who'd dad owns casinos. So who knows, maybe you're some billionaire's son who really does know what's best for us. Well, either that or your some kind of casino development genius. (Psychic maybe?)

I actually have step foot in a Casino. In Vegas, all the hotels have casinos, and to get to your room you must walk through it. I have seen casinos, and they are not all bad. Obviously I do not mean that Disney is equal to Europe. however, they are both fun places. That is what I mean. Europe is a much better vacation, but is that a reason not to ever goto Disney? Does Disney attract the wrong type of tourists? And we cannot make Toronto into Europe! We can attract other tourists though.

Two recent studies produced by two “major Canadian universities” that found no correlation between casinos and crime.

If this is built, it has to be an iconic, once-in-a-lifetime building, which Toronto really needs. We need spectacular buildings on a world-class level, not a local level.
 
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I propose a moratorium in which we agree to ban the use of that wretched phrase, "world class," for at least a month. We all could use a break.
 
Doesn't matter who uses it. It's tired and reeks of desperation. The more I hear it in relation to building this city, the less I think anything about Toronto is world class.
 
Gee, and here I thought we had to have a 12-months of the year Cirque show to be considered ... you know ...

I've recently had to spend a lot of time in slot facilities; they're not the lovely happy places that OLG likes to convey in their ads. They are full of people interacting with machines, rather than each other, pouring $20 bill after $20 bill into a machine in the hope of striking it rich. Sure, there's some economic benefit to the municipality, but I think it comes with a very high human cost.
 
For me, that about says it all. Anyone who has been to Europe and Disney World and thinks, "one is not necessarily better than the other" is seriously messed up or very, very young. Cooltoronto, some of the stuff you write just blows my mind, and that's even taking into consideration that you are a 15 year old know it all.

Well, look: to coolcanadian, nothing is "necessarily better than the other". Y'know, when I brought up Thomas Kinkade to counter his notion of popularity = quality, he countered with "art is opinion". To him, *any* judgment call is "opinion".

I'd really like to know what his home environment or familial travel habits are like--or for that matter, whether he lives in Toronto at all...
 
Doesn't matter who uses it. It's tired and reeks of desperation. The more I hear it in relation to building this city, the less I think anything about Toronto is world class.

Fine.. I disagree with those who say a hotel, casino, amusement park, restaurant, or mall cannot be world class. But I agree that that phrase has been overused.

However, staying on topic, my point is this resort/casino-complex needs to be iconic. That has been over used also, but I'm talking truly iconic.

The CN Tower is Iconic, as is the Sky Dome. This needs to be iconic, and I believe it will.

The single fact that it is a $6 billion dollar project does not mean it will be iconic, or even nice, but it provides the opportunity for it to be.

Think about it this way: if MGM announced they wanted to build a $600 million entertainment complex with a casino, we would not expect anything spectacular. In fact, it would be evident that the project would in no way be magnificent. However, six billion dollars is a lot of money! No other similar project in Toronto, if not Canada, is this big. That budget really allows us to make something great.

If there was no competition, public vote, or livable city here, then a 6 billion dollar project could still be something bad. However, the fact that so many companies are interested in this project means that they will all strive to provide the best design with the best impact, because they all want the job. The companies know that the public will vote on this, so they have to wow them. Toronto is not a city like Vegas. Any project must be suitable for the city. It can be bold and striking, but it must fit in with the existing city. The companies know that. MGM has already commented on the skyline and transit, meaning they are taking that into consideration.

This could be a great addition to our city and waterfront. An entertainment complex on the waterfront could actually improve the waterfront greatly if done right.

The OLG is changing its business model.

Casino developers expressing an interest in Toronto include MGM, MLSE’s Larry Tanenbaum, Caesars Entertainment, Canada’s own Onex Corp. and Las Vegas Sands Corp.

A project this large is estimated to bring $100 million a year to the city. There is expected to be a study on a casino in Toronto sometimes soon.

Two recent studies produced by two “major Canadian universities†that found no correlation between casinos and crime.

A project of this scale could employ up to 10,000 people directly and 20,000 jobs in other industries, due to the multiplier effect.

Those against casinos for the casino have no solid argument. Pretty much every other major city in Canada has a casino. That alone is not a reason to build on here, but the fact that they have one and are not "trashy" cities shows that the "terrible effects" caused by casinos are not as terrible as one might want us to think. Toronto has a casino during there summer at the CNE, and we do not see a spike in crime. Look at the Crown Melbourne or Marina Bay Sands, both of them effect their city's in a positive way and are similar to what we might get here.

Even if you think a casino is a terrible thing, the GTA will get one no matter what. Do you not think it is better to get as much money and jobs as possible if this must be built?

We are lucky enough to have a once in a lifetime chance to build an entertainment complex that can be enjoyed by millions of people in all age groups. It could even spark more tourism/entertainment developments in our city.

This kind of project is not going to make Toronto into Las Vegas or Atlantic City, because those are completely different situations in general.
 
CoolCanadian, when I talk about the human cost, I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about addictions, people gambling away their life savings and homes, and more. All of that bears an economic as well as a social cost. And it's a real problem.

By the way, what are these two major universities you keep referring to?
 
Well, look: to coolcanadian, nothing is "necessarily better than the other". Y'know, when I brought up Thomas Kinkade to counter his notion of popularity = quality, he countered with "art is opinion". To him, *any* judgment call is "opinion".

I'd really like to know what his home environment or familial travel habits are like--or for that matter, whether he lives in Toronto at all...

I do live in Toronto, and adma, I would like to ask you to stop trying to insult me. Being an asshole will not help get your point across. You are implying that if we do not build a casino, Toronto will be turned into a European city with museums, and we will attract more sophisticated tourists. Any judgement call is not opinion, but someones artistic tastes are. I'm not saying Thomas Kinkade's prices are equal to a line of modern art, or anything like that. I'm not saying that just because many people like modern art, it means that it is better. Look at how many people like Justin Bieber, even though the Beatles are better. However, if so many people like Justin Bieber, is it bad to have a Bieber concert in Toronto? If so many people like modern art, is it bad to build a modern art gallery in Toronto? Just because people like other type of art does not mean we cannot also have some of Thomas Kinkade's work in our city. It just means certain people enjoy certain things. Honestly, stop saying things about what my family is like, where I live, etc. It is off topic and just rude.

I am not saying Disney World is better than Europe. However, I am saying there are a lot of people who would enjoy a trip to Disney just as much as a trip to Europe. That does not mean that Europe is bad, and having one does not mean you cannot have the other. DisneyWorld Paris!! LOL its has both.

In conclusion, my point is, if we build an entertainment complex in Toronto that attracts many people, it does not mean we cannot build a Thomas Kinkade art gallery or a museum. If millions of people would enjoy this facility, why not build it? It means we will have more for people to do, it does not mean that nobody will come to our museums. In fact, it could even include a museum, i.e. Marina Bay Sands.

And an entertainment complex would not "attract the wrong types of tourists!" I think it could attract families. Have people stay in Toronto for longer.

It is like you are saying we either have to be Vegas or Vienna. There can be a mix! Look at Melbourne! It has a huge entertainment complex, at this same time it has so many other attractions!


Gee, and here I thought we had to have a 12-months of the year Cirque show to be considered ... you know ...

I've recently had to spend a lot of time in slot facilities; they're not the lovely happy places that OLG likes to convey in their ads. They are full of people interacting with machines, rather than each other, pouring $20 bill after $20 bill into a machine in the hope of striking it rich. Sure, there's some economic benefit to the municipality, but I think it comes with a very high human cost.

I'm not saying we need a Cirque, or a casino. Nowhere does. But is it a bad thing to have? No. This place would not be anything like an OLG Slot Facility. 5% of it would be a casino, but the rest would be enjoyed by everyone. The casino built here would no doubt be nicer than any OLG slot place, and the rest of the complex would be a great addition to our city.

Also, you are making it sound as if everyone who enters a casino gambles away everything. When my parents goto a casino, they spend probably max $20 just for fun. Many people just enjoy the action and fun. There are addicted gamblers, but building this does not mean we will make more, nor does not building this mean we will make less.

CoolCanadian, when I talk about the human cost, I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about addictions, people gambling away their life savings and homes, and more. All of that bears an economic as well as a social cost. And it's a real problem.

By the way, what are these two major universities you keep referring to?

I understand that gambling addiction can be a problem, but we already have a casino at the Ex during the summer that hardcore gamblers will use. Also, if it is such a huge problem, it is going to be felt throughout the GTA regardless, because a casino is being built in the region, even if not downtown. However, why not make the best of it? Create an entire place that families can go, those who don't gamble. Provide as many jobs as possible. Attract tourists. A casino is being built in the GTA, and whatever negative effects there are will be felt throughout the region.. So why not at least get some good from it, right?

The Universities were mentioned in this article: http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...e/192812--major-announcement-monday-about-olg
 
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By your logic, we should also promote smoking. Hey, it's bad for you but it makes money so let's support it.
 
By your logic, we should also promote smoking. Hey, it's bad for you but it makes money so let's support it.

No. Gambling is not bad for you if you spend $20 here and there. In a way, the stock market is gambling. So is buying a lottery ticket, which you can do almost anywhere. Smoking pollutes, so I cannot really use an example like that. I think it's great that our city banned smoking in restaurants and other places like that.

A casino will be going somewhere in the GTA. The negative effects (such as gambling addictions) will not be any different if the casino is downtown, or if it is in a suburb. Those who already have addictions will goto the Ex, Niagara, Rama, etc.

A casino is going to be built in the region. Should we not get the best effect with jobs, tourists, and entertainment?
 
CoolCanadian, when I talk about the human cost, I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about addictions, people gambling away their life savings and homes, and more. All of that bears an economic as well as a social cost. And it's a real problem.

There's going to be problems with addiction no matter what. OLG wants to (is set on) build a casino in the GTA. Even if it's not in Toronto, it might be in Mississauga, Markham or wherever but no matter where it is in the GTA, Toronto will be affected.
 
Yes there will be problems. I just don't like the cavalier attitude of "oh we'll, there will be problems. We might as well make money from it". Life doesn't always boil down to dollars and cents
 

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