Transit City Plan

[TheTigerMaster]

Would it? Work was never cancelled. Wednesday's motion simply reaffirms the existing MoU with the Province (TC).

I dont believe that planning was finished for the other 4 lines so construction work never really began. But you are technically right. Council approved the plan and work never officially ended. But Council would still probably have to vote to reaffirm their position on the other 4 lines to prevent His Worship Mayor Robert Ford from getting into any more transit shenanigans.

 

[Johnny Au]

So did I. Looks like we were one of the few who foresaw the disaster that would happen if Ford was elected

We need more Pantalone voters to come out of the closet and tell people that Ford voters should regret voting for Ford, when Pantalone had a more sound transit plan (though like Ford, surprisingly, Pantalone also had plans to phase out the vehicle registration fee (though not as immediately)).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I wonder if Ford could make a gamble that the City wants subway and hold a referendum. Who could call this, would it be Council or the Mayor? As with all the referendae, the key is in the phrasing of the question.

Does the mayor have the authority to call referendums? Referendums are usually used in MAJOR circumstances (ie: Quebec Separation).

And plus a referendum would cost Toronto millions. Rob Ford is the "cut the (imaginary) gravy" mayor and an expensive referendum would be a black mark on his record.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We need more Pantalone voters to come out of the closet and tell people that Ford voters should regret voting for Ford, when Pantalone had a more sound transit plan (though like Ford, surprisingly, Pantalone also had plans to phase out the vehicle registration fee (though not as immediately)).

Many Ford voters do feel regret. I was talking to my family over Christmas and they were telling me about how they felt lied to, cheated and betrayed by Ford.

 

[jeffreym]

I would think it would be council....

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would think it would be council....

I think that the province has to call a referendum. And remember that referendums can be ignored. Case in point: The Toronto amalgamation referendum. People voted 3:1 against it, but Harris went ahead an amalgamated anyways.

 

[11th]

Wasting $1-billion on a 2-km subway extension is a better plan than building an entire LRT line?

Say what you will about ridership projections, but when it's time (who cares when) to upgrade the route to subway/elevated mode, you'll still need that $1billion for those 2km; and it won't be 1 billion when that time come. Therefore the money is not wasted, unless you're ruling out any future extension.

 

[Johnny Au]

I remember Mike Harris. He dragged transit along Eglinton a few decades behind by filling in a hole that was already dug for the Eglinton West subway line. It went against the will of many people along Eglinton. At least the Eglinton Crosstown line (regardless of Wednesday's outcome) will be dug enough that filling it would no longer be an option by any future politician (and at this point, it would be political suicide to cancel the Eglinton Crosstown LRT completely).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How are you guys feeling about a Transit City victory tomorrow? And I mean what you think are the chances of a Transit City win and not what your personal opinions of the plan are.

 

[Johnny Au]

I think that Transit City will have a very good chance of winning tomorrow. Most of the naysayers do not do proper research anyways.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We already had a referendum. The election. No more.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We already had a referendum. The election. No more.

The election wasn't a transit referendum. And if it was a referendum Ron Ford's Crosstown would loose (he got less then 50% of the vote). And polls on the National Post, Toronto Star and even on the Toronto Sun indicate that a strong majority of Torontonians support Transit City.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I remember Mike Harris. He dragged transit along Eglinton a few decades behind by filling in a hole that was already dug for the Eglinton West subway line. It went against the will of many people along Eglinton. At least the Eglinton Crosstown line (regardless of Wednesday's outcome) will be dug enough that filling it would no longer be an option by any future politician (and at this point, it would be political suicide to cancel the Eglinton Crosstown LRT completely).

To be fair to Mr. Harris, I don't think the stub of a line that was Eglinton West would've been very effective. But I still don't like the man.

 

[Electrify]

Except that you are wrong, and it is. If the Transit City line from Yonge to Jane runs at 32 km/hr it is still as much rapid transit as it is if a subway runs at 30 km/hr.

What's the issue for you, speed? There are Bus Rapid Transit lines that run less than 22 km/hr. They are still called Rapid Transit.

I've explained this to you clearly in the past. I fail to see why it's still an issue.

Besides in the central business district, what rapid transit lines see average speeds of 22km/h? The Yonge Street Viva in Richmond Hill tends to average this speed with moderate traffic, however it also tends to get at least one red light between stops. Thus cutting its 1km stop spacing in half.

While it may not be terrible, is this what we are striving to achieve with Transit City? Transit lines which are no faster than express buses in mixed traffic with no signal priority, and with off-board fare payment? All local transit should have stop spacing about every 400-500m to achieve average speeds of about 20km/h, it should not be considered "rapid" no matter how low you set the bar. In dense, pedestrian and transit friendly Europe, this is the norm for many local transit lines.

 

[Johnny Au]

I know that. A stub on Eglinton would have been better than no rapid transit, though I would agree with you that it would be ineffective in the grand scheme of things. Mike Harris knew that stubways outside of Sheppard are ineffective, though I still view him as the worst premier in Ontario's recent history.