Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

nfitz said:
They are currently working on the new Metro line from downtown to Dulles (essentially a branch of the Orange line that will run from Dulles to Station-Armory near RFK stadium). But the Dulles extension isn't expected to open until 2016 or later ... and travel time from downtown would still be about an hour. More of a Piccadilly line than a Heathrow express.

One would assume that Porter has done some market research, and has considered these issues.
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I assumed that they wanted to add another major destination (there is limited amount of passenger growth/potential by increasing frequncies to Sudbury/SSM/etc) and Washington was a target....unable to get gates/slots where they wanted they said "ok, I guess Dulles it is".

Perhaps they should just buy themselves a bus and offer a free Porter shuttle into the city.
 
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TOareaFan said:
I assumed that they wanted to add another major destination (there is limited amount of passenger growth/potential by increasing frequncies to Sudbury/SSM/etc) and Washington was a target....unable to get gates/slots where they wanted they said "ok, I guess Dulles it is".

Perhaps they should just buy themselves a bus and offer a free Porter shuttle into the city.
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Is there any potential new destination for Porter after this? I mean it is already flying to the middle of nowheres such as Timmins and Moncton, and I can't think of Canadian cities worth flying to.

Would it be completely impossible to fly to Florida? Toronto to St John's flight is 3+ hours, right? I would think destinations such as Miami and Fort Lauderdale are similar in distance.
 
kkgg7 said:
Is there any potential new destination for Porter after this? I mean it is already flying to the middle of nowheres such as Timmins and Moncton, and I can't think of Canadian cities worth flying to.

Would it be completely impossible to fly to Florida? Toronto to St John's flight is 3+ hours, right? I would think destinations such as Miami and Fort Lauderdale are similar in distance.
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Philadelphia maybe?
 
kkgg7 said:
Is there any potential new destination for Porter after this? I mean it is already flying to the middle of nowheres such as Timmins and Moncton, and I can't think of Canadian cities worth flying to.

Would it be completely impossible to fly to Florida? Toronto to St John's flight is 3+ hours, right? I would think destinations such as Miami and Fort Lauderdale are similar in distance.
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Philadelphia is often talked about by Porter as a prefered destination. I would think it would be next.

From what I understand.....Florida is well outside of range from YTZ with the aircraft in use. Not sure but don't those flights to St. John's stop somewhere?

Edit....just did a qucik check on flyporter.com and did a phantom booking from Toronto to St. John's......the route seems to be Toronto-Ottawa-Halifax-St. John's....so, two stops not one.

I guess it could be Toronto-Washington-Atlanta-Orlando ;)
 
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My sis is overjoyed at just how well this airport and Porter are doing. She just moved into the Tip Top building a few months ago, so she walks to the airport. It's perfect for her, since she travels quite a bit. Plus, her daughter lives in Montreal, and it's sooo simple for her to come back to Toronto for a visit. Under an hour for the flight, and then a 5 minute walk from the airport to the condo.
 
Agreed Eug. I also live in the area and it's ever so handy. I've also recently experienced some excellent customer service from Porter -- they went above and beyond in my opinion.

On the other hand, there is the annoyance of engine run-up noise on occasion and general airport noise. It's a trade-off when you choose to live here.
 
Florida is well outside of range from YTZ with the aircraft in use.
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The Q400 has a maximum range of 2500km, but this requires a 4600 foot runway. The runway at YTZ is only 4000 feet, so they are limited generally to flying to destinations within about 1000km.

However, they could stop somewhere on the way (such as Newark or Washington) to get to Florida or fly from Ottawa or Montreal. Bermuda from Halifax or Boston could also be done.

Is there any potential new destination for Porter after this?
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In the Nov/Dec issue of their inflight magazine their route map shows several proposed destinations, including Detroit, Cleveland (Burke Lakefront Airport?), Cincinnati, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. There has also been talk about Winnipeg, Fredericton and Saint John (all of which would require a stop from YTZ).

However, they have pretty much booked up all of their planes, so there won't be too many more routes until they find some more equipment. Of course, it is often possible to pick up used aircraft relatively quickly should the need arise.
 
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PinkLucy said:
Agreed Eug. I also live in the area and it's ever so handy. I've also recently experienced some excellent customer service from Porter -- they went above and beyond in my opinion.

On the other hand, there is the annoyance of engine run-up noise on occasion and general airport noise. It's a trade-off when you choose to live here.
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She can't hear the planes unless she's outside on the balcony, and she overlooks the airport and the water.

When I lived at Front and Bathurst I never heard the planes either, but that's quite a bit further.
 
When I lived on QQ, right across from the east runway, I had to keep the windows closed to have a phone conversation. Now I live across from Tip Top and I don't reallly notice them except during the runups. There's also a sound cannon thing that they use for the birds that drives my dog mental.

Sure heard the planes during the Air Show though. And saw them up close. My son was in heaven :)
 
nfitz said:
One would assume that Porter has done some market research, and has considered these issues.
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There's often a joke people who follow the airline industry make when an airline announces an oddball route about the people in the route planning department simply throwing darts at a map. Of course, in reality, most airlines do research the markets for a route, but at the end of the day they have planes to fly and will often try something to see if it will stick. Porter have slots that they'll have to use or lose and they have planes being built and set for delivery. I don't necessarily think that Porter is doomed on the route, but I also don't think they'll have the same apparent success that they've had in New York and Boston.

TOareaFan said:
From what I understand.....Florida is well outside of range from YTZ with the aircraft in use. Not sure but don't those flights to St. John's stop somewhere?
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As noted, YTZ is a limiting factor on the planes. While their range would theoretically allow them to fly routes from Toronto to Florida, another factor to consider is that over a certain stage length, the Q400 loses its competitive edge to faster flying jets. Even if a plane could take-off from the Island to Florida, the increased flying time on a Q400 would more-or-less cancel the time savings of going to the Island versus Pearson. Furthermore, a longer flight would increase Porter's costs so that they'd probably need to charge a higher fare that could render them uncompetitive. One of the benefits of the Q400 is it's lower fuel costs compared to Air Canada's Airbuses, Bombardiers CRJs and Embraers that they use on similar routes. After a certain point, the longer flight on the Q400 starts to eat away at that advantage.

I think the next step for Porter is increased flying from Ottawa. They have the lounge there, they already have a good presence in the city and, at least anecdotally, most people seem to enjoy them. They could use some of the aircraft they have coming in for delivery to connect some of the existing dots (e.g. YOW-EWR, YOW-YQG) or use it to open new destinations that don't really make sense from Toronto, like London and/or K-W.
 
sjc said:
It will be interesting to see if they order new planes, and whether they order more Q400s or something else like the C-series.
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I dont know about the C-series... its a jet and requires at least a 4500-5000 ft. runway...maybe thats Robert Deluces next goal, to extend the runway and get the the government to overrule the only-prop bylaw and allow jets to land at Billy Bishop.
After all the New-Gen C-Series jets are not any louder than the turbo prop Q400s landing there now.
 
sjc said:
In the Nov/Dec issue of their inflight magazine their route map shows several proposed destinations, including Detroit, Cleveland (Burke Lakefront Airport?), Cincinnati, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. There has also been talk about Winnipeg, Fredericton and Saint John (all of which would require a stop from YTZ).

However, they have pretty much booked up all of their planes, so there won't be too many more routes until they find some more equipment. Of course, it is often possible to pick up used aircraft relatively quickly should the need arise.
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Well, Winnipeg is about the same distance as Miami from Toronto, and Orlando is closer.
Fredericton? Last time I check, it is a small town with about 55K people. Why bother? Can't imagine demand will warrant it.
 
TOareaFan said:
Philadelphia is often talked about by Porter as a prefered destination. I would think it would be next.

From what I understand.....Florida is well outside of range from YTZ with the aircraft in use. Not sure but don't those flights to St. John's stop somewhere?

Edit....just did a qucik check on flyporter.com and did a phantom booking from Toronto to St. John's......the route seems to be Toronto-Ottawa-Halifax-St. John's....so, two stops not one.

I guess it could be Toronto-Washington-Atlanta-Orlando ;)
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No, because Canada does not have cabotage rights in the US. How about Toronto-Dulles-Nassau-Orlando? Weirdly, that one would be legal.
 
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