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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Hi,
New to the board.

I have a few things to say about TRAM Power. It's kind of strange that a small company with little experience, would even bid. Their one tram does not even meet the 100% low floor requirement!

And they have the nerve to say they can build a tram for 2.6 million? Maybe so, but should the TTC even trust a company with no experience?

Oh yeah.

Their prototype tram caught on fire in Blackpool last year.
 
It would be nice to see this tram on Toronto streets.
EN_PortoEurotram-LowRes1.jpg


These sleek machines are going to look really out of place on our patchy, cracked ashphault streets and chipped concrete streetcar right-of-ways.
 
Tiny British firm thinks big

Bidding against favourite Bombardier to build 600 trams 'a David and Goliath sort of situation,' official concedes

MATTHEW CAMPBELL
July 3, 2008

If pluck and ambition were the key criteria for awarding multibillion-dollar transit contracts, Britain's TRAM Power Ltd. - whose sole operational light-rail vehicle, a prototype for the faded English resort town of Blackpool, burst into flames in a public test run last year - would surely be building Toronto's next generation of streetcars.
As reported yesterday, the tiny company, which has just 100 employees and has never built an in-service streetcar, is one of two vying to eventually produce almost 600 light-rail vehicles for the city for a total cost of more than $3-billion.
The other, Bombardier Transportation, is already at work on Toronto's new subway trains and has streetcars on the road in dozens of major cities.
TRAM Power's technical director, Lewis Lesley, described himself yesterday as "excited, though frightened of course" at the prospect of taking on one of the world's dominant rail manufacturers. "You've got to start somehow," he added.


David Biggs, the managing director of TRAM Power's vehicle construction contractor, Northwest Group, said that while his company has never produced streetcars beyond the prototype phase, they are essentially similar to buses, with which it has much more experience.
Mr. Biggs said that "the only difference is that one runs on tires and has an electric engine," although he conceded trying to beat Bombardier "is a David and Goliath sort of situation."
It is unclear whether TRAM Power's bid will be in line with basic TTC requirements, which call for a vehicle that is fully low-floor, or wheelchair-accessible.
Mr. Lesley said that the TRAM Power streetcar is "100 per cent low-floor for 70 per cent of its length."
Siemens AG, the German conglomerate widely expected to compete with Bombardier for the project, surprised many by failing to submit a bid before the Monday deadline.
Last year, Siemens argued that it could have provided new subway cars at lower cost than Bombardier, which has its rail assembly plant in Thunder Bay, partly by building them in China.
That contract was negotiated directly with Bombardier, without an open bidding process.
With its only competition for the streetcar contract such a small player, Bombardier seems poised to become a dominant force in Ontario transit. In addition to Toronto's planned network expansion and replacement of existing streetcars, Hamilton, Mississauga, Kitchener-Waterloo and York Region are all planning light-rail systems.
"Whatever Toronto does is going to set the pattern for the rest of the province," said local transit expert Steve Munro - meaning that Bombardier would also become the supplier of choice for smaller cities looking to benefit from economies of scale.
The exact specifications and appearance of Bombardier's design aren't yet known, although whatever it has proposed likely resembles the "Flexity" streetcars currently plying the streets of Berlin, Brussels, and Stockholm.
The biggest question, however, is the vehicle's exact price, which will be revealed later this year.
 
TRAM Power's bid did exactly what they wanted it to do - get us talking about TRAM Power.
 
Well, considering the TTC is funded by taxpayers, Bombardier clearly is the right choice. Especially when all those auto-sector jobs are disappearing.

Hmmmm...there's something to this logic which makes me a bit uneasy. I think Toronto should get the best streetcars it can for the best price, Bombardier or not. Now that Siemens is out of the running, that's probably the case. But i don't think Bombardier is clearly the right choice every time a public agency wants to buy something in their marketplace.

Regardless, it will be nice to help out the provincial economy with this purchase, I just don't want to see Toronto get hosed in the process.
 
The upside of this is that Bombardier has submitted its proposal with the expectation that it had to compete with Siemens with regards to price and content. Siemens might have delivered the superior proposal, but at least BBR has not proceeded in a complete sole-source backroom deal as with the subway cars.
 
I hope Bombardier didn't know. Industrial Espionage is a lot more prevalent than people think. Bombardier could easily pay off some mid-level Siemens employee $100k to find out they weren't bidding, then make all that back and far more with a higher bid. There's also the possibility they are colluding with Siemens and Bombardier wont make a bid in some other city where Siemens wants the contract. Who knows? It's just very odd that Siemens dropped out! :cool:
 
As much as I don't like the city favouring Bombardier, our economy needs it right now.
 
The Siemens and Bombardier proposals were on display at the CNE last summer and it was embarrassing how clunky the Bombardier design was.
 
Trampower even uses Google Sketchup and the 3D Warehouse to advertise its trams. I stumbled upon its tram model in the 3D Warehouse ... it looks kind of detailed (actually better than probably 60% of the stuff people upload to the Warehouse), but the presentation of the model is terrible- the screenshot makes the model look like it was made by schoolchildren.

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=ed5bf6b0a2d68ce2b07d09d88c49948b&prevstart=0

In Toronto terms, might we say that Trampower is the Harry Stinson of public transit development?
 

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