Toronto Maple Leaf Square | 185.92m | 54s | Lanterra | KPMB

[caltrane74]

um..well.

I was thinking more about the Harbourfront residents, rather than those living at Infinity or Pinnicle Centre. - That is where the crowds are pretty non-stop at least during summer. You know along Queen's Quay.


...

And even if the residents at the above condos have an issue with crowds.. walking to (or from) a Raptors/Leafs game is not an all day affair anyways.

 

[Architecturefan]

um... what?

Have you not seen the massive crowds of 20,000+ heading to and from the ACC? Between the raptors and the leafs, it's almost every other day. And that's only during the winter.

What's really nightmare-ish is that little stretch in april when the Jays, Raptors and Leafs are all still playing at the same time

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'm confused. Should I not live here because it is 'barren' or should not live here because of the 'massive crowds'? Is the area devoid of life or is there just too much life taking place between four professional sports teams, concerts and other cultural events?

 

[Tewder]

That is beautiful photo looking down from above.
Unfortunately, it really drives home a point. NO neighbourhood. Nothing. Simply a lot of very tall buildings grouped together. It really is bleak and soul destroying. Somebody was reminded of Siberia. I was reminded of one those depressing Moscow apartment neighbourhoods we have all seen pictures of. The only difference is we have lots of glass in our buildings....

I agree with Granny's impression. This area feels more like MCC than downtown Toronto. Too bad.

 

[jn_12]

neighbourhoods develop though. It might take a little while to develop a character for the area, but I think it's premature to say that simply because the area consists of large buildings, its forever lost.

 

[Archivist]

These buildings have no neighbourhoods! No streets with shops, restaurants, cafes, ... nothing. Just cold hard wind swept barren bleak avenues designed primarily for the automobile, allowing people to get into their cars and drive to somewhere else in the city where this is some colour,some warmth, some laughter, ...some life. If they can't drive, they can bundle up and start walking. The real city can be found about a kilometre or so away.

What a grotesque, weird, dramatic, overstatement! Granny, do you even live in Toronto? Couldn't they just walk up a block to Front in the St. Lawrence area. Or down one block to partake of the urban beach and the crowds along the waterfront. Or perhaps two or three blocks to be on King Street for a beer at the Loose Moose or something? My God, it's so close you could pratically do it indoors. On a nice day, I'd have a hard time choosing where to walk to that was 10 minutes away.

Yes, these buildings rest beside the Gardiner. I think the people saw that before they moved in. No retail, ever, is going to attract people to the little wedge of isolated land that is 18 Yonge. Yet, I am grateful for those who purchased there and brought development to a parcel of land that seemed so forlorn. The fact that people are willing to live so close to an expressway and that so much intense development is taking place on these lands that were industrial not so long ago speaks well for the community. If you are shocked -- shocked!! -- that the liveliest hippest strip of Queen W hasn't been replicated on Bremner Boulevard, then you need to get out more.

 

[unimaginative2]

You're right, Archivist. It's clearly right next to some of the most exciting parts of the city. Still, Bremner is a real missed opportunity for the city. It's a pretty dreary, windswept place. Even though it's often packed with thousands of people going to and from sports games and conventions, it's completely bereft of any kind of amenities. Hopefully this will change with more development, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[scott]

I understand the criticisms about the lack of a true neighbourhood/community feel, but two people have mentioned it being "windswept".

I may be naive, but what exactly are they supposed to do so it isn't "windswept"? Toronto is a windy city, especially when you're building tall towers (which they should be building in these areas for the sake of density).

 

[grey]

These buildings have no neighbourhoods! No streets with shops, restaurants, cafes, ... nothing. Just cold hard wind swept barren bleak avenues designed primarily for the automobile, allowing people to get into their cars and drive to somewhere else in the city where this is some colour,some warmth, some laughter, ...some life. If they can't drive, they can bundle up and start walking. The real city can be found about a kilometre or so away.

What a grotesque, weird, dramatic, overstatement! Granny, do you even live in Toronto? Couldn't they just walk up a block to Front in the St. Lawrence area.

Yeah, just like he said... about a kilometre or so away. I think he's 100% correct. You could use the same argument about Cityplace being 10 minutes from the entertainment disstrict and Queens Quay. Has that made Front/Spadina/Bremner an exciting, vibrant neighbourhood?

I understand the criticisms about the lack of a true neighbourhood/community feel, but two people have mentioned it being "windswept".

I may be naive, but what exactly are they supposed to do so it isn't "windswept"? Toronto is a windy city, especially when you're building tall towers (which they should be building in these areas for the sake of density).

They actually have to conduct windtunnel studies for towers in Toronto to try to prevent streets from becoming "windswept" -- I think it's part of the environmental assesment?

 

[CDL.TO]

'Windswept' does not mean the same as 'windy'. 'Windswept' means 'exposed to the winds', in other words 'barren'.

The financial core might be a windy landscape, but it is not a windswept landscape.

 

[scott]

'Windswept' does not mean the same as 'windy'. 'Windswept' means 'exposed to the winds', in other words 'barren'.

The financial core might be a windy landscape, but it is not a windswept landscape.

If that's the case, the criticism makes even less sense. Of course the area is barren; it's just beginning to get filled in by developments. Are people not suppose to live there until every empty lot is developed so it isn't as barren?

It will take upwards of 10 years before you can really judge this area. Of course, that's much too long to wait without forming an opinion (see: CityPlace).

 

[Archivist]

Yeah, just like he said... about a kilometre or so away. I think he's 100% correct. Grey, 100% correct eh? Get yourself a ruler. Are you telling me that there's nothing from Queen Street to the water? Because that's a kilometer.

And frankly, one could easily make the same "criticism", that almost every street in the city is not an "exciting, vibrant neighbourhood". Is Beverley an "exciting, vibrant neighbourhood?". Is Phoebe? Is Eastern? Is Wellesley? No, these are not primary commercial streets in our city. That doesn't make them wrong, or badly planned, or anything, except streets whose purpose is not primarily entertainment or commercial.

I have yet to visit a city where every street but a few are not "vibant, exciting, neighbourhoods". That's because for every street that is lined with cafes and stores and restaurants, and filled with people, there are about 138 that are lined with offices, homes, factories, and maybe the occasional store or restaurant here or there. These streets are commonly used mostly by those walking to their destinations. They, too, form part of the fabric of our city, and are not necessarily blunders or mistakes.

I would have more understanding of criticism of Bremner if people were either more judicious in their comments, or said "I believe Bremner would have been better had it been designed to be primarily a street for entertainment purposes". But here we have a street that is all of four or five blocks long, running alongside a stadium, a park, a convention centre, populated on its western end by residential, and with its eastern end completely under construction, and people are judging it by the yardstick of Queen Street!

I'm not saying that Bremner is perfect or could not have been better planned, but get a grip.

 

[Mike in TO]

A bit fuzzy as the windows were dirty...

 

[marcus_a_j]

This one is starting to poke its little head out of the ground on the north side. Soon the massive podium will be taking shape as the south side is getting closer to ground level.

 

[grey]

I'm not saying that Bremner is perfect or could not have been better planned, but get a grip.

Yikes! Settle down there, Chief.

"Queen Street to the water" is probably not the best example you could have used as there is not a hell of a lot to do from York & Bremner to York & Queen unless you work in the financial district.

"People are judging it by the yardstick of Queen Street!" What a grotesque, weird, dramatic strawman. I actually had the St Lawrence area in mind as a well-established model neighbourhood, which, incidentally, is about a kilometre or so away, according to Google maps