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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

SO Killing Omar Kadar in battle is fine then?

That is what I meant

While I will avoid deep specifics, the Rules of Engagement are usually something to the effect of "minimum force required to engage and neutralize the threat". If the guy is unarmed, he is not considered a threat anymore. Putting a bullet in him will get you court-martialed:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/capt-robert-semrau-dismissed-from-the-forces/

I can easily understand if soldiers eventually decide not to follow the rules.

You might. But Canadian society likely won't. And that's why commanders take a dim view of undisciplined actions that violate standing policies, laws and ROEs. The above case should prove instructive. We could argue that Capt. Semrau did the morally right thing putting that fighter out of his misery. However, the implications of allowing an individual to decide what should and should not be justifiable homicide in violation of the ROEs are huge. The military cannot allow soldiers to decide what lawful orders can be violated on personal judgment. And post-Somalia and post-Airborne Regiment, there's a strong sense that we would lose the support of Canadian society if we tolerated such behavior.

And I would argue it's what makes the military an admirable institution. The ultimate statement of professionalism is that you can have an enemy shooting at you one instant and then administer aid to save his life, without malice, the very next moment.

I will relate to you a second hand story. One of my bosses had the chance to serve with General Hillier when the General was a Colonel and my boss was a Captain in Bosnia. They got pinned down by sniper fire and were under strict ROEs that really limited return fire. The Captain's radio operator ran up to the two of them yelling, "Sir, they are shooting at us!" To which, then Col. Hillier calmly responded, "Son. Don't take it personally. They aren't shooting at you. They are shooting at the uniform you're wearing."

Our job is to exercise violence, on behalf of the state, in pursuit of our nation's objectives. Letting emotions get in the way, takes away the ability to analyse situations dispassionately, could cost us that nation's goodwill and support and ultimately make us far less capable. I'll take a disciplined soldier who isn't a great shot over a trigger happy marksmen any day.
 
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I would guess the police would say the same thing.

There's a reason many of those who serve in the military tend to look at cops with less reverence these days. It's pretty clear that cops are far less disciplined than those of us in the military. And that's being borne out with vets who do police work:

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/50471...e-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired

I would love to see police forces start training to military standards particularly when it comes to crisis management and fire discipline.

I remember the Sammy Yatim shooting. I got into it on Facebook with a high school buddy who was a cop. I flat out called it wrong and said the cop would be convicted. Why? Because that shot would definitely have gotten a soldier in front of some disciplinary or judicial panel. And while the first few shots were debatable to me, the second set absolutely was not. My cop buddy said it was too difficult to judge and that there was no way for anyone to really know without judging how much the cop felt threatened, etc. Made me really wonder about how officers are trained and what their level of judgement really is.
 
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LOL. Cops being let down?

For the most part they are a bunch of thugs more interesting in collecting a large paycheque than public safety. And for the most part they can get away with murder.

I doubt many of them even have an opinion on Khadr.


Saying cops are Thugs, pretty much means its okay to say certain people are inherently violent based on crime stats. Meaning if you extrapolate police shootings to say all cops are bad, then why can't racists use such logic against specific ethnic groups?

Both opinions are based on some sort of deeper issue but greatly oversimplify and demonize groups and dont help to resolve the problem.

Do people really think exporting American style racial conflict is going to make our country more safer?
 
Make it two Conservative MP's who have posted stuff about "fake news" on social media. Scheer can't keep his people in check!
 
Saying cops are Thugs, pretty much means its okay to say certain people are inherently violent based on crime stats. Meaning if you extrapolate police shootings to say all cops are bad, then why can't racists use such logic against specific ethnic groups?

Both opinions are based on some sort of deeper issue but greatly oversimplify and demonize groups and dont help to resolve the problem.

Do people really think exporting American style racial conflict is going to make our country more safer?

This is a thread about Trudeau. So I'm not going to continue this debate.

But what has happened in Durham region with an off-duty Toronto cop is sickening. And to me is proof of a deep-seeded problem with our police. The cover-up is disgusting.
 
I think anybody outraged enough over the Khadr story was probably not going to vote for Trudeau. For the average voter, it may have been an annoyance for a day or two if they cared at all.....
 
Imo Sheer has been a poor choice and is only capable of rallying the Harper base to support his party.

The problem with that it will take a long time for Trudeau to lose that much support for them to win like that.
 

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