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1 Bloor East, DEAD AND BURIED (Bazis, -2s, Varacalli)

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urbandreamer said:
I believe alternative viewpoints should be allowed on this--or any--board; it's not like we live in China where some gov't agency spies on the board making certain posters stick to PC posts? It's not as if this board is an extension of the condo guide--advertorials for developers--so why not allow some opposing views? Makes it more exciting to read. It's kinda like reading a newspaper--dullsville if only one voice (eg in usa pro bush/iraq war) is heard. Yes Vultur is kinda hard on these Bazis folks--but he does have a point: would you pay $3000psft to live at yonge and bloor? would you buy a luxury item from an unknown brand name?

Although supply vs demand could explain the abrupt increase in 1 Bloor's condo prices, I believe Bazis' strategy shouldn't be accepted at face value. Not all of us fall for marketing stunts....
Click to expand...

I totally agree urban about contrarian views and a healthy amount of skepticism. However, vultur took it to a different level, where he personally attacked anyone who wouldn't share his view that Bazis was a scam. As of now, from what I understand, units are probably 850 per square foot. Probably at the mid point of the luxury condo market as of now, with Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons running around 1200 to 1500 per square foot. There is an obvious issue with them being unknown. Everyone has to start somewhere, in any entrepreneurial venture with a new entity, there has to be investors who believed in them when nobody else would. I always say if you don't believe in the developer because they need to prove their worth, well then don't invest in them. 5 years from now, they could have developed a landmark project and proved themselves. Then again they might fail. If they succeed, those who took the chance will be rewarded big time.
 
From Realnet Canada, November, Luxury Condos

I found this rather illuminating, the recent figures on the price per square foot in the Toronto luxury condo market. Looks like if anything, 1 Bloor is so far on the lowish end. I say so far because we don't know what its going to do in the next few months.

Toronto Luxury Condo Prices:

Four Seasons West, Bay/Yorkville: $1,580 sq.ft.

Museum House, 206 Bloor W: $1,541 sq. ft

Four Seasons East, Bay/Scollard: $1,242 sq. ft.

Trump International Hotel and Tower, Adelaide/Bay: $1,137 sq. ft.

77 Charles, Charles/St. Thomas: $1,102 sq. ft.

Residences at the Ritz Carlton, Welington/Simcoe: $983 sq. ft.

One St. Thomas, St.Thomas/Sultan: $922 sq. ft.

Crystal Blu, Balmutto St. :$917 sq. ft.

1 King St West: $872 sq. ft.

1 Bloor E., Bloor/Yonge: $850 sq. ft.

100 Yorkville: $849 sq. ft.

Shangri-La, University/Adelaide: $822 sq. ft.

One Bedford, Bedford/ Bloor: $776 sq. ft.

Pier 27, Yonge/Queens Quay: $773 sq. ft.

Source: Realnet Canada Inc.
 
Thanks asiancolossus, good data, although it may be a bit outdated already in reference to 1 Bloor East.

It is fair and reasonable to put forward alternative views of the Toronto market, especially the current state of the "upper end" of the market. There is beginning to be more and more concern about a few of these projects, and whether the values can be sustained. Not all of this concern comes from ill-informed people, either.

That can be said without being insulting, either to members of this forum or to parties such as Bazis, who as far as I know, and based on any evidence available to date, are legitimate business people with legitimate backing.

It's certainly jaw-dropping to read of the sale of the top penthouse. You can bet that the purchaser will be checked out to verify his financial strength and track record, and a down payment a bit higher than 5% or 10% will have been collected up front!
 
The numbers on 1KW are quite suspect. You can buy resale at 1KW starting at $175,000 (~350 sq = $500/sq ft) for a 31st floor unit. And there are a total of 8 units that can be had for under $200,000.

The prices listed for their remaing "new" units on their website are overpriced and have been sitting since it opened, and are most likely not "new", undoubtely been put into their hotel pool.

I wouldn't put 1KW in the same league as the rest of "luxury" product. It does not cater to a luxury clientele, and is actually quite affordable and accomodable to the average tourist.

Reference:

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyResults.aspx?Mode=0&Page=1&vs=Residential&ret=300&sts=0-0&beds=0-0&baths=0-0&ci=toronto&pro=-1&st=1+king+st+w&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=2&of=1&ps=10&o=A

asiancolossus said:
I found this rather illuminating, the recent figures on the price per square foot in the Toronto luxury condo market. Looks like if anything, 1 Bloor is so far on the lowish end. I say so far because we don't know what its going to do in the next few months.

Toronto Luxury Condo Prices:

Four Seasons West, Bay/Yorkville: $1,580 sq.ft.

Museum House, 206 Bloor W: $1,541 sq. ft

Four Seasons East, Bay/Scollard: $1,242 sq. ft.

Trump International Hotel and Tower, Adelaide/Bay: $1,137 sq. ft.

77 Charles, Charles/St. Thomas: $1,102 sq. ft.

Residences at the Ritz Carlton, Welington/Simcoe: $983 sq. ft.

One St. Thomas, St.Thomas/Sultan: $922 sq. ft.

Crystal Blu, Balmutto St. :$917 sq. ft.

1 King St West: $872 sq. ft.

1 Bloor E., Bloor/Yonge: $850 sq. ft.

100 Yorkville: $849 sq. ft.

Shangri-La, University/Adelaide: $822 sq. ft.

One Bedford, Bedford/ Bloor: $776 sq. ft.

Pier 27, Yonge/Queens Quay: $773 sq. ft.

Source: Realnet Canada Inc.
Click to expand...
 
urbandreamer said:
it's not like we live in China /QUOTE]

You are right. And you honestly think Canadian governement will allow an international company to scam Canadians right at this important intersection?
Like asiancoloss said, Bazis definitely have to prove themselves in the next few years however it's not fair to give them a bad name only because average Joe can't afford a unit there.
Have you ever sold anything on e-bay? If someone is willing to pay $100 for that piece of crap you try to get rid of, would you give it to another buyer for $50? I don't think so. Well Bazis is doing exactly the same thing with million dollar homes.
Click to expand...
 
I wonder about these price comparisons. One St Thomas $ per square foot would match the average price of Four Seasons for example. I wonder whether they are using stale data such as the prices One St Thomas went for 3-4 years ago vs Four Seasons today? Or perhaps 1StThomas is trying to unload a few remaining units that have problematic floor plans.
Rankings don't seem too scientific.
 
Interestingly, they are going to submit to a design review process. It will be interesting to see how the proposal changes (if at all).
 
Perfect location for Macy's. They expressed interest in the late 1990s so there is a precedent.
 
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