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VIA Rail

Looks like Yves is still gunning for 2019. Optimistic I'd say.

Definitely. Shovel ready by next year seems a bit optimistic too. It really depends how much work they have done behind the scenes, and it isn't totally clear at this point. It also isn't clear where exactly they are thinking of routing new tracks (if different from the existing corridor), but hopefully we should find out soon.
 
Another one:

Via Rail ready to roll out plan for faster service along Quebec-Ontario route
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-along-quebec-ontario-route/article29638997/

Good breakdown of time reductions:

Toronto-Ottawa

Current trip: 4:01
Dedicated tracks: 2:30

Ottawa-Montreal
Current trip: 1:50
Dedicated tracks: 1:20

Toronto-Montreal
Current trip: 4:42
Dedicated tracks: 3:45

Given all the increased media attention this is getting, and that VIA has been lobbying the federal government, ministers and backbenchers alike, I would not be surprised to see this approved.
 
Definitely. Shovel ready by next year seems a bit optimistic too. It really depends how much work they have done behind the scenes, and it isn't totally clear at this point. It also isn't clear where exactly they are thinking of routing new tracks (if different from the existing corridor), but hopefully we should find out soon.

Yeah shovel ready by 2017 seems very optimistic. And I for one would like to know the routing too - It would end a long standing debate in this forum haha :)
 
The routing would be the current one, for only $4 billion.

What makes you say that VIA has ruled out the Peterborough route? I agree that the existing route makes more sense, but as of yesterday we saw in Metrolinx documents that VIA was considering the Peterborough line as an option.
 
What makes you say that VIA has ruled out the Peterborough route? I agree that the existing route makes more sense, but as of yesterday we saw in Metrolinx documents that VIA was considering the Peterborough line as an option.

The stated times in the Globe make me wonder. If the existing Kingston-Brockville routing is retained, that's a pretty fast timing. A direct to Smiths Falls routing is more plausible with a 2:30 timing - unless they spend a lot more.

- Paul
 
I don't see how they can build the dedicated track so quickly. Wouldn't they need to expropriate land and work with native groups to allow passage through some of their land. I somehow doubt 2019 service would be doable. If they can improve the times in phases, perhaps improve Toronto-Kingston, Kingston - Ottawa and Kingston to Montreal and Ottawa-Montreal. If they can get 2 of the 4 main chunks built that would set drive enough momentum to get the job done. If I were VIA, I'd prioritize getting the Toronto-Ottawa and Ottawa-Montreal components built first as I'd imagine that brings the most riders.
 
I read the two stories, and still scratching my head. My initial thought is that there's nothing really new in either, and the Globe must have done a quick cover of the Cdn Press one. Other than "shovels in ground by 2017"....in quotation marks but not properly accredited, the rest appears to have been lifted from earlier interviews. Puzzling.

Here's my take-away from both, albeit the CP copy was much better written and cogent, even if most of it also was re-hash:
“I think we’re going to make some exciting stuff happen,” he (Del Duca) said.

What's incredibly troubling is at the time I accessed the Globe story (roughly 9PM) there was only *one* reader comment! This is starting to fizzle rather than cook.

And the route timings: Not accredited for source. ??? I'm going to Google to see if there's a report somewhere that can actually be quoted from the source. Excellent heads-up Alex, I pore over the Globe daily online, and this escaped me. I still can't help but feel that Dejardins-Siciliano has an end-game in mind beyond what's being presented. Garneau's response is muted, perhaps by necessity. A lot of if, ands and buts so far....

Wouldn't they need to expropriate land and work with native groups to allow passage through some of their land.
The RoWs already exist. As far as has been stated, any route utilized will be along extant or former rail RoWs, none of which are legally contentious, albeit there was a blockage by First Nations in Eastern Ontario a year or so back on the Tor to Mont corridor, but CN got a court injunction against it. If there was a claim, the court didn't recognize it as having legal standing. What is contentious still is whether the route will dive under or over freight tracks and grade crossings, so as to allow the line to be completely dedicated or not. It will be built *parallel* to much of the existing freight trackage but on the RoW. Details are still ambiguous, and these latest two stories add very little new.
 
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The curious part is Garneau's explicit quote that no one should assume that nothing will happen for three years.

It's quite possible that there are in fact investors interested, and after the go-slow budget they gave Ottawa a poke and suggested that things should get moving or their money would go elsewhere.

I don't believe the shovel-ready-by-2017 statement, but it's possible that some small bits that were in VIA's hope chest are shovel-ready even now. That would be enough for a few photo ops.

It's also possible that Ottawa is favourably inclined to throw Bombardier an equipment order, in lieu of a more blatant handout. VIA's CEO may be taking a risk and stating the obvious - ie new equipment won't accomplish much without the dedicated tracks to run on. If so, good on him for seizing the opportunity.

The "perhaps even to Quebec City" sound bite strikes me as a card played. Without this leg, we're talking about an awfully Ontario-centric expenditure.

- Paul
 
It's also possible that Ottawa is favourably inclined to throw Bombardier an equipment order, in lieu of a more blatant handout. VIA's CEO may be taking a risk and stating the obvious - ie new equipment won't accomplish much without the dedicated tracks to run on. If so, good on him for seizing the opportunity.

I know this is entering speculation territory, but do you guys think that VIA would order off the shelf equipment from Bombardier (and if so, what), or have equipment designed specifically for the service. With YDS's aggressive timeline, I would think that it would be off the shelf. Correct me if I am wrong though.
 
The curious part is Garneau's explicit quote that no one should assume that nothing will happen for three years.

It's quite possible that there are in fact investors interested, and after the go-slow budget they gave Ottawa a poke and suggested that things should get moving or their money would go elsewhere.
I thought same, this is a polka game, and a lot of what is appearing in the press is prodding. Some of it just plain doesn't make sense unless put into that context. I just re-read the stories for a third time, to try and find anything directly quotable and when it was made, most is re-hash from earlier stories, but this struck me as absurd, especially in light of the timings just published that you queried:
Desjardins-Siciliano’s plan envisions the construction of dedicated passenger rail lines for trains that would travel at an average speed of 110 kilometres an hour, initially along a corridor from Toronto to Montreal, with stops in several communities along the way.
Huh? That's driving speed, or less! Author must have dug that out, it's stale. Why bother at that speed? HSR has been dropped, sensibly so, but even for HFR, that's abysmal.
It's also possible that Ottawa is favourably inclined to throw Bombardier an equipment order, in lieu of a more blatant handout.
I mentioned there was "only one reader comment" at the Globe in a prior post. (there's now two, second one is pathetically off-target) First comment is actually a really apt one, and echoes your comment and what I read recurring in these stories:
MartinMac1 36 minutes ago
If you put your ear to the ground by the rail track, you can just about hear the Bombardier contract coming ...
He got a thumbs up from me!

Edit to Add: Alex writes:
I know this is entering speculation territory, but do you guys think that VIA would order off the shelf equipment from Bombardier
It is speculation, but very apt, and probably right. And probably consolation for the CSeries being a "no". But consider this: Open Competition applies only to governments signed to trade deals. Since the pension funds mentioned already have ties (in some cases) to Bombardier, there's certainly an 'in' already, and private companies can buy from whomever they want for whatever reason they like, shareholders agreeable. The Gov would *love* that! It gets them off the hook of doing another "F-35" "open" competition that only L-M could possibly win (The Libs made a real issue of that in Opposition) so they've got to tread carefully.

Bombardier *have* screwed up royally on a number of issues when they've been 'sole suppliers' the most obvious one being the TTC Flexity fleet...but in all deference, it was a difficult contract (Siemens quoted almost double the price, realizing gauge, tight turning radius, and Cdn content rules made the deal undesirable) and if I were running a company with a tried and trued design from my other factories abroad, I'd have to think long and hard before committing, especially to local jobbers not up to the required competence)...so there are lessons to be learned, not the least to stick to *standard off-the-shelf designs* with an *offset production* clause, not a content clause. Get them shipped *complete* from Europe, and perhaps assembled here, albeit even testing is best done at the production facility.

So yes, Bombardier are a slam dunk on this, but they'd better be at their best!

Paul writes:
...it's possible that some small bits that were in VIA's hope chest are shovel-ready even now. That would be enough for a few photo ops.
This is the case for Metrolinx too on the Bramalea to Union Corridor, and if D-S (and whatever org gets the project off the ground) get a shovel in somewhere on the Union-to-Montreal corridor, then Metrolinx had best be ready to jump too on the Bramalea electrified connecting corridor. It would allow a run-through east of Union, and a serious start to RER. The silence is deafening!
 
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Why bother at that speed? HSR has been dropped, sensibly so, but even for HFR, that's abysmal.

Maybe the 110 km/h number includes stops/stop time in that average. From what we've heard so far I thought the number VIA was tossing around was 170 km/h. Also 110 km/h doesn't make sense when contrasted to the travel times in the Globe and Mail article. So it also could be an error.
 

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