SmartTrack (Proposed)

[44 North]

Until you realize there's literally no Rapid transit option to traverse E/W anywhere north of Eglinton, that's a huge chunk of area. Finch West takes it part of the way, we still need something to completely go from West to East. I'd say leveraging the existing Sheppard Subway corridor, and modifying it to fit within that need could be enticing to a politician drawing lines on a map. I've got to imagine there's demand for crosstown trips in the north due to the abundance of busy TTC routes that go East-West.

And it's also possible to leverage the SRT corridor, if that becomes available. Yonge to McCowan is just under 13km. But subtract the current 5.5km Sheppard Stub and 2km of the SRT's right-of-way - and it's only a 5.5km gap that needs filling between Don Mills/Sheppard and Kennedy/Ellesemere (as the crow flies). How these two could be connected, and with what technology, remains to be seen. But I think Sheppard may come back to life one way or another.

 

[kEiThZ]

Until you realize there's literally no Rapid transit option to traverse E/W anywhere north of Eglinton, that's a huge chunk of area. Finch West takes it part of the way, we still need something to completely go from West to East. I'd say leveraging the existing Sheppard Subway corridor, and modifying it to fit within that need could be enticing to a politician drawing lines on a map. I've got to imagine there's demand for crosstown trips in the north due to the abundance of busy TTC routes that go East-West.

Absolutely there's a need for a northern Crosstown. This is what the Sheppard subway was originally supposed to be. And why ridership is so low. They never finished what they started. This is why I think they are better off converting Sheppard to LRT and developing a through LRT service from Jane to the zoo.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Until you realize there's literally no Rapid transit option to traverse E/W anywhere north of Eglinton, that's a huge chunk of area. Finch West takes it part of the way, we still need something to completely go from West to East. I'd say leveraging the existing Sheppard Subway corridor, and modifying it to fit within that need could be enticing to a politician drawing lines on a map. I've got to imagine there's demand for crosstown trips in the north due to the abundance of busy TTC routes that go East-West.

Look again.

The Sheppard Rapid Transit will add 13 km of from Don Mills to Morningside, except that it will not start construction until after Finch West LRT is completed first.

 

[Towered]

Absolutely there's a need for a northern Crosstown. This is what the Sheppard subway was originally supposed to be. And why ridership is so low. They never finished what they started. This is why I think they are better off converting Sheppard to LRT and developing a through LRT service from Jane to the zoo.

I agree that a Sheppard LRT would be ideal for a northern crosstown route, but the problem is that it would do nothing for Rexdale, unless you'd be willing to tunnel under those detached homes and the Humber beyond the rather sudden end of Sheppard at Weston.

 

[gweed123]

I agree that a Sheppard LRT would be ideal for a northern crosstown route, but the problem is that it would do nothing for Rexdale, unless you'd be willing to tunnel under those detached homes and the Humber beyond the rather sudden end of Sheppard at Weston.

After reaching Downsview, go up Dufferin to Finch and then head west to connect it with the Finch West LRT. You then have a true northern crosstown route: The Sheppard-Finch LRT. Dufferin already has dedicated bus lanes along it, so road widening isn't required.

 

[kEiThZ]

After reaching Downsview, go up Dufferin to Finch and then head west to connect it with the Finch West LRT. You then have a true northern crosstown route: The Sheppard-Finch LRT. Dufferin already has dedicated bus lanes along it, so road widening isn't required.

No need for that. Either take Sheppard west of Downsview. Or take Finch east to Yonge. There's no need per se for there to be connection when there are subway links between the corridors. It's not optimal to be sure. But not necessary. Especially when duplicating the service of the subway that's 2km away!

Sheppard will get built in the East anyway. It'll either be a subway or LRT. But there will be something. So might as well stick with Sheppard through to Weston, if you want a continuous Crosstown.

 

[Voltz]

I don't recall much disruption when they built North York Centre station.

TBM tunnels are completely removed where a station is built, the tunnel at North York Centre was built differently and allowed for the tunnel walls to be cut away leaving the bottom and trackbed in place.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If they add HOV lanes for buses and taxis on the 400 and Black Creek Drive, from Steeles down to Mt. Dennis Station and transit hub, they'll be able to feed both the SmartTrack and Eglinton Crosstown LRT at Eglinton Avenue West.

See link.

 

[Adjei]

But what if these "experts" are politically motivated in their expert decisions? Five years ago in the GO benefits case experts said that AD2W using diesels would be more than optimal for the Stouffville corridor to beyond 2031. Its business case was so-so, and in 2008 its ridership projected at 4.9M by 2031 (i.e not much higher than it is now). Then with the subsequent electrification study again Stouffville wasn't really shortlisted for any significant improvement (unlike other corridors). Instead it was grouped in the unfeasible "entire network" electrification option - a proposal with negative economics and strong negative deliverability.

Now these same experts are telling us no, Stouffville shouldn't have ad2w, nor express rail. Rather it's imperative to have prioritized electrified express rail, and a plethora of new stations for metro-like local service. Is it a coincidence that this promise was made by the premier and just so happened to occur two months before an election? People blast certain pols for changing plans, or bringing something new to the table. But when other pols do it, they're praised. With ST, there's definitely something going on. Whether it's to bolster the Prov's plans, as a vote winning exercise, to kill off the DRL, kill SSE, or a combo of all. Either way, it seems pretty clear to me that politics and 'expert' planning continues to go hand in hand. Both at the municipal level and the provincial level.

Metrolinx has been planning on running two way all day services on the GO lines, running a regional express line for the Lakeshore lines, and electrifying the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines:

http://your32.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/The-Big-Move-Next-Wave-Project-Profiles.pdf

So no Kathleen Wynne did not pull the GO RER plans out of her behind for the election. She just got more ambitious with existing plans by looking to introduce more frequent levels of services to more sections of the lines (15 min or better level or service) and looking to electrify more of the lines. As part of next wave project Metrolinx was looking to spend $7.5 billion (2014) on GO lines. What the GO RER is doing is increasing that spending to something like 13 billion for better level of service and electrification, fare integration, and integration with local services. GO RER should have been done long time, which is why you don't see much criticism leveled against it compared to other transit projects. It reaches more of the region and it is money well spent.

As for what you are saying about ridership, anybody can see that these lines will be well used and the region is dying for this level of service. Also Metrolinx is planning on increasing the level of services gradually which will help to build up ridership and not just introducing everything at once. There are places in Europe and other places with smaller populations than Toronto who have levels of service superior to what GO RER is planning on so I don't see why a region as big as Toronto cannot handle it even with all the car usage her. GO RER should be the backbone of our transit system.

Of course politics and expert planning go hand in hand. Well duh. The politicians control the money. The bureaucrats at Metrolinx or TTC can come up with all the plans they want but without money from the politicians, it will just collect dust.

We blast certain politicians for pulling transit plans out of their behind like Tory with SmartTrack and Rob Ford with nonsense like subways on Finch. With SmartTrack there are no official Toronto plans offering this type of service. It has never been brought forward by anybody in Toronto because those lines are owned by GO and they would be the ones building something like this. If the city of Toronto wants something like this, they need to go to GO and the province. SmartTrack was flawed which is why it is getting pulled apart when it's actually studied by the experts especially the nonsense on Eglinton West.

Where are all the studies pulling apart GO RER apart? There are none because everybody can see it makes sense and should have been done a long time ago. The city of Toronto has spent the past one year trying to make the original SmartTrack plan work and has failed in doing so. Shows how flawed the plan was.

 

[crs1026]

Where are all the studies pulling apart GO RER apart? There are none because everybody can see it makes sense and should have been done a long time ago. The city of Toronto has spent the past one year trying to make the original SmartTrack plan work and has failed in doing so. Shows how flawed the plan was.

Where are all the studies on RER, period? ML is building the whole thing behind closed doors with none of the transparent diligence that City projects get. Sure, one hates to see the duelling studies dynamics of the City's politics, but that is preferable to making decisions with no data or debate at all. The recent Davenport debacle is a good example of this, it came out of nowhere and blindsided everyone. The powerpoint decks that accompany RER town hall meetings are hugely vague, compared to say the Crosstown EA document.

- Paul

 

[ssiguy2]

If you "rough-in" a station {like Vancouver did at 33rd for the Canada Line} it can be built very easily, cheaper, and faster than if you don't.

As far as calling it RER I completely disagree. Call if ST or just a subway but not RER as it implies it is not a TTC service and hence will be more expensive than a standard TTC fare. This is why ST gained such traction with voters in the last election where as more GO stations and service has attracted very little in Toronto itself. An added fare, as proven by the recent stats, can have a crippling effect on ridership especially for service of less than about 15km.

GO/RER generates little excitement {or even interest} because a lot of people will not be able to afford the higher fare.
ST is a TTC subway line and that's how it should be viewed and branded and not a GO/RER service that people and politicians view as a more expensive service that is more geared for the 905 than the city itself.

 

[W. K. Lis]

What are the feelings of both leaderships of the Ontario PC and NDP for SmartTrack and public transit in general? Just in case all this drags on to and after the next Ontario election. Personally, don't want another "Mike Harris" coming on the scene and overturning everything.

 

[kEiThZ]

What are the feelings of both leaderships of the Ontario PC and NDP for SmartTrack and public transit in general? Just in case all this drags on to and after the next Ontario election. Personally, don't want another "Mike Harris" coming on the scene and overturning everything.

Smart Track and RER will always be an easier sell over an $8 billion DRL or billions in LRT. The NDP will support the latter. The PCs probably won't, since they'll be worried about the deficit.

But I get the sense that it's much harder to oppose regional projects that impact half the province's population (RER).

Now, the PCs did favour a short downtown DRL last election. And the current leader seems to be more amenable to an urban agenda in general. So who knows.

One thing everybody should anticipate is regional demands. Not all the money can go to the GTA. And other cities (like London and Ottawa) are paying for a third of their transit plans, with much higher property taxes. In a situation of scarcer transit dollars (say if the PCs are elected), I expect the GTA will either see cuts or provincial demands for higher contributions.

 

[WislaHD]

What are the feelings of both leaderships of the Ontario PC and NDP for SmartTrack and public transit in general? Just in case all this drags on to and after the next Ontario election. Personally, don't want another "Mike Harris" coming on the scene and overturning everything.

I'm very anxious about this considering the financial plight of the province.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is this what they mean by GO's RER, SmartTrack, or a combination of both?