TTC Cartography, Signage, and Wayfinding

[junctionist]

The idea to adjust the fonts based on the station's lighting to optimize legibility is brilliant. What was surprising, however, was that it's going to take them 5 years just to overhaul the signage at 17 stations. While watching that, I was thinking "Montreal is decades ahead on signage". Then I heard the last part and was reminded of the TTC, which has often been slow to implement user-friendly features. We should take note but move faster.

 

[P23]

STM (Montreal) is preparing to update its signage, as described in this video:

More information: http://www.stm.info/en/about/major_projects/new-signage

Very nice, however I'm slightly confused by the fact that the coloured circles for the lines don't have letters or numbers. How is a colourblind person supposed to navigate? Everything else looks very high quality though, makes me jealous.

 

[ShonTron]

I really love the way finding for exits shown at 3:25. Can one of us with twitter tweet that to Brad Ross? I'd love to see the TTC consider adopting it.

The same system of lettering exits is used in the Hong Kong MTR. It's incredibly useful, especially for tourists or those unfamiliar with a particular station's layout. I could see this being particularly useful in large stations like Finch, Sheppard-Yonge, or Spadina.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

They are quite useful, though a problem may arise if transit lines (RER, Hamilton 'A', or 'B' Line) are lettered like the RER is in Paris; there, Métro exits are numbered and I've seen some cases where people have walked to 'Sortie 2' thinking it was a connection to Métro Line 2.

 

[nfitz]

TTC dropped in a PDF version of the post-Line 5 subway map in a presentation on the Eglinton line names. See final page - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...inton_Line_Station_Names__Combined_Report.pdf

 

[salsa]

The extreme distortion of distances in the east-west direction is starting to get annoying.

 

[nfitz]

The extreme distortion of distances in the east-west direction is starting to get annoying.

It's the insistence on only using 45-degree angles, and the north-south compression that leads to the east-west issues. Essentially they have Eglinton the same distance from Bloor as Front - and then a shorter distance from Eglinton to Sheppard than Eglinton to Bloor.

Ultimately the bigger the city gets, the more of this there will be.

Though if they'd buy into some 30 degree angles, they could clean up some of the problems on Line 1 north of Dupont.

Edit - oh wait, there is a 30-degree angle between Finch West and Highway 407. I'm not sure what they are thinking then, they could use the same angle from Dupont to Eglinton West-Allen, and fix a lot of the weirdness.

Still, it's a nice problem to have. And a 97 station map instead of 69!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With the system fully built, it looks something like this.

 

[M II A II R II K]

When Line 3 is gone, I wonder if the higher numbered lines would bump up by one, or we'd end up doing a Montreal and have no Line 3.

 

[nfitz]

When Line 3 is gone, I wonder if the higher numbered lines would bump up by one, or we'd end up doing a Montreal and have no Line 3.

They'd never renumber the lines - that would just be confusing.

If Line 3 is gone (the rate they are going, who knows ...) I'd assume that it would just be not used. Like Montreal - or like Terminal 2 at Pearson.

Though if we DO build a DRL subway, and Line 3 is unused - it's an excellent choice. That way Line 1 through 4 are subways and Line 5 to 7 (and more?) are LRT.

 

[salsa]

It's the insistence on only using 45-degree angles, and the north-south compression that leads to the east-west issues. Essentially they have Eglinton the same distance from Bloor as Front - and then a shorter distance from Eglinton to Sheppard than Eglinton to Bloor.

Ultimately the bigger the city gets, the more of this there will be.

I can understand, but I don't see why the Crosstown and Spadina extension have to be stretched so much. Here is a more reasonable version that I created:

Whereas this was the original:

Which one do you like better?

 

[44 North]

The extreme distortion of distances in the east-west direction is starting to get annoying.

Just wait until Line 1 goes up to RHC - which is three km further north than Vaughan Centre. Using the TTC's style (and just as we've done in the past) everything south will be squished, crammed, and compressed much much more than it is. That laughably ridiculous E-W section between Sheppard West and Finch West (which in reality has the same NS dist as EW)...it'll probably have to bend southward in order to accommodate the massive distortion.

This map I made was an attempt to visualize the distortion on our existing map. If we add in TYSSE, the black hole north of St Clair will only get deeper, wider, and more silly. I'm hoping more ppl realize this is unacceptable. Distortion on a schematic is commonplace. But the obscene misrepresentation we see on the TTC's map (a map many people rely on to get around) is way out of line.

I can understand, but I don't see why the Crosstown and Spadina extension have to be stretched so much. Here is a more reasonable version that I created:

Very nice. But I believe the TTC map - as awful and distorted as it is - is actually moderately accurate for having stations line up with one another. With yours I'm noticing that TYSSE is too far east. Jane on B/D should roughly line up with 407 and VMC. And similar with TTM's map, I'm noticing Bayview in particular not lining up with itself.

 

[nfitz]

Which one do you like better?

I'd try getting the stations along the Allen lining up somewhere west of Ossington, and then leaving the stations on Jane (Highway 407 and Vaughan Mafia Centre) line up with Jane (with Mount Dennis a bit to the east). Requires changing the angle west of Dupont.

 

[salsa]

Very nice. But I believe the TTC map - as awful and distorted as it is - is actually moderately accurate for having stations line up with one another.

I have to disagree. That may have been the case with the existing map, but upon further scrutiny of the new one it turns out that is completely not true. Amazingly, they even managed to mess up the alignment between some of the Spadina line and Yonge Line stations (e.g Sheppard<-->Downsview, St Clair<-->St Clair W), which used to line up correctly until now.

One of the only pairs of stations that happen to line up (in the north-south direction) are Finch West <--> Keele, but look at how much distortion that caused to the Spadina extension. Not worth the effort if you ask me.

I'd try getting the stations along the Allen lining up somewhere west of Ossington, and then leaving the stations on Jane (Highway 407 and Vaughan Mafia Centre) line up with Jane (with Mount Dennis a bit to the east). Requires changing the angle west of Dupont.

Whether the stations line up was not a priority for me. The TTC tried to do that with Finch West but look at how that turned out. I prefer evenly spaced stations like you see on Line 2, which is far more elegant than trying to have everything line up.

 

[nfitz]

Whether the stations line up was not a priority for me. The TTC tried to do that with Finch West and look at how that turned out. I prefer evenly spaced stations like you see on Line 2, which is far more elegant than trying to have everything line up.

Fair enough - could do a bit of both ... simply by pushing the western end of Line 5 eastward!