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Hipster Duck
2008-May-23, 12:04
I took a walk on Danforth yesterday evening between Pape and Vic Park and I was blown away. The area around Donlands, in particular, has really turned a corner in the last three years.

poppajojo
2008-May-23, 13:30
Dentonia Park area is nice, close to the subway, good parks, decent retail, more affordable than other central areas plus without the pretension that comes with some other nabes.

Urban Shocker
2008-May-24, 23:29
Last night I took a walk along the Danny, east from Pape, and - other than the mosque under construction - I thought the area around Donlands looked like it was tipping into poverty. There were a couple of abandoned cars in a small parking lot that appeared to have been there for years, empty storefronts, and cracked windows.

adma
2008-May-25, 00:05
Ah, but go there again tomorrow... (http://spacing.ca/wire/2008/05/23/ben-kerr-honour-with-laneway/)

mjl08
2008-May-25, 22:44
I live at Donlands and Danforth and love the area. Far cheaper than the homes in Riverdale and the Browning/Fulton corridor north of the Danforth near Chester.

There is a vibrant Middle Eastern pocket from Jones to about Greenwood, with some great Halal pizza shops and butchers, as well as two mosques. I find the Danforth from Jones to Woodbine fairly walkable... a bit less so until Main... and quite dreary east towards Vic Park.

My local watering hole, The Only Cafe at Donlands, is a must stop for a pint on a Thursday night.

Urban Shocker
2008-May-25, 22:54
When is it "vibrant"? The Only Cafe was the only place with anyone in it, for quite a few blocks around, on Friday evening.

mjl08
2008-May-25, 23:04
Walk along the streets in mid afternoon after Mosque prayers on Thursday and Friday... vendors back up their trucks to the sidewalks (quite illegal) and storefronts sell kebabs outside... might not be Riverdale Carrot Common vibrant, but still pretty damn exciting.

The Greek Orthodox church just north of Donlands Station is packed on the weekends, and they often organize events in the parking lot, as well as being a start off point for the annual Greek Independence Parade.

The pedestrian traffic from Eastern Commerce, Danforth CI and Monarch Park CI and St. Patricks also keeps the area busy in the day time.

billonlogan
2008-Jun-12, 09:39
Walk along the streets in mid afternoon after Mosque prayers on Thursday and Friday... vendors back up their trucks to the sidewalks (quite illegal) and storefronts sell kebabs outside... might not be Riverdale Carrot Common vibrant, but still pretty damn exciting.

After numerous complaints from businesses and residents, many of those vendors, especially the ones selling produce, were told to stop. This is not Kabul or Lahore and they need to respect the rules around here.

nfitz
2008-Jun-12, 18:31
We need to be a bit less anal with the rules.

billonlogan
2008-Jun-12, 23:21
We need to be a bit less anal with the rules.

Rules surrounding produce and meat sales are there to protect people. The cops nailed one guy last fall selling rabbit and poultry he was breeding at home. What about produce recalled due to salmonella and e-coli? How do you stop one of these vendors who just got a great deal of recalled tomatoes selling them on the street?

robbiedigital
2008-Aug-06, 12:07
...I've lived, more or less, in this area for my entire life of almost 29 years, and it's a shit-hole.

Pape to Greenwood --> mini-Islamic state.

Greenwood to Woodbine --> OK, I'll admit, it's getting nicer...there are a few nice shops around, like the Renaissance Cafe, and I have a particular affection for the 12th Fret just east of Woodbine.

Woodbine to VP --> disgusting, particularly at Main. I take a bus from Main St. station very often, and there is no progress...just the potential for a mugging. Just the other week, I saw some gangster looking white guy with a blue bandanna hanging out of his pocket, a tear-drop tattoo under his eye and a tattoo on his neck - "DRC". Hmm...I wonder what he could be about...oh, yeah right...a Dawes Road Crips (http://www.rapdict.org/Dawes_Road_Crips) member! Then we have a mini-Bengali/Bangladesh area from Dawes to VP.

Progress? I must be missing something.

urbandreamer
2008-Aug-08, 00:36
Hey, I was on the Danforth (no photos, sorry:() on Monday and noticed a new mosque under construction--south side, near Greenwood(?), the workers were laying the stone facade by hand. Very cool! This sort of diversity is why I love Toronto!

ganjavih
2008-Aug-08, 10:52
They're actually letting people build a mosque? What's this country coming to?

urbandreamer
2008-Aug-08, 11:27
Well obviously stone is laid by hand! But the sheer number of workers on the site--at least 20, was surprising. But time is money, (or salvation) I guess.

I'll try to grab photos soon....

buildup
2008-Aug-08, 13:39
"Woodbine to VP --> disgusting, particularly at Main. I take a bus from Main St. station very often, and there is no progress...just the potential for a mugging. Just the other week, I saw:

1) some gangster looking white guy with a blue bandanna hanging out of his pocket, a tear-drop tattoo under his eye and a tattoo on his neck - "DRC". Hmm...I wonder what he could be about...oh, yeah right...a Dawes Road Crips member!

2) Then we have a mini-Bengali/Bangladesh area from Dawes to VP."

So wanna-be gang members are being equated with immigrants? Which is worse from your perspective?

mjl08
2008-Aug-08, 15:44
"Woodbine to VP --> disgusting, particularly at Main. I take a bus from Main St. station very often, and there is no progress...just the potential for a mugging. Just the other week, I saw:

1) some gangster looking white guy with a blue bandanna hanging out of his pocket, a tear-drop tattoo under his eye and a tattoo on his neck - "DRC". Hmm...I wonder what he could be about...oh, yeah right...a Dawes Road Crips member!

2) Then we have a mini-Bengali/Bangladesh area from Dawes to VP."

So wanna-be gang members are being equated with immigrants? Which is worse from your perspective?

Agreed... if Pape to Greenwood is a "mini Islamic state" then that would make Chester to Pape a "mini Eastern Orthodox state" or Roncesvalles a "Polish commie ghetto," correct?

If you honestly think Main and Danforth is a dump, try the ritzy townhomes across the bridge selling for upwards of a million. Even at 10:00 at night there are 5x more yuppy Beaches kids on their way to Wakestock than there are liquored up bums or Bengali terrorists.

urbandreamer
2008-Aug-08, 16:10
I like Main (to Greenwood) on the Danforth: very retro Anglo culture meets new immigrants. It is in fact very old Toronto: something to be celebrated, imho.

robbiedigital
2008-Aug-08, 16:37
Hey, I'm just calling a spade a spade. If this offends your PC sensibilities, tough.

Donlands and Danforth is simply not an attractive neighborhood, despite the construction of x number of pretty places of worship for lesser cultures.

Regardless of million dollar town homes across the bridge, that area is garbage. Your statement about rich yuppee kids from the Beaches is just plain false. I LIVE THERE. I know.

urbandreamer
2008-Aug-08, 16:39
Hey Robbie, no doubt about it, the area is a ****hole.

But that can be charming too....unless you have to put up with it at 3AM.

ganjavih
2008-Aug-08, 16:42
Hey Robbie, no doubt about it, the area is a ****hole.

How can it not be when it contains so many people of lesser cultures?

robbiedigital
2008-Aug-08, 16:44
Listen..I'm not comparing that strip to Jane and Finch or anything like that...I don't feel unsafe around there at night or whatever, but when people are starting threads ranting and raving about how nice East Danforth is, I start to wonder.

robbiedigital
2008-Aug-08, 16:46
How can it not be when it contains so many people of lesser cultures?

LOL...I knew I was going to get it.

Funnily enough, ganjavih, I was referring to Main and Danforth not Donlands and Danforth.

Interesting assumption on your part, though.

urbandreamer
2008-Aug-08, 17:04
I was actually referring to the "white trash." However, poor white people have just as much right to be there as anyone else; probably many of their grandparents helped build the neighbourhood!

Admiral Beez
2008-Aug-08, 17:44
I used to work at the Shoppers Drug Mart at Main & Danforth in the late 1980s and remember well that our largest group of shoplifters and general troublemakers were the white trash, while the hardworking immigrants in lived in the neighbourhood were the most polite.

There is only one identifiable group that I really can't stand and that's white trash. With the real benefits of "white privilege" combined with the opportunities of state supported education, there is no excuse for the lazy groups of mullet and tatt wearing trash living off welfare, all the while our immigrant communities are working like dogs in every job they can find.

adma
2008-Aug-08, 21:13
Hey, I'm just calling a spade a spade. If this offends your PC sensibilities, tough.

Of course. You could be calling him a coon, or a darkie, or a Sambo, too
http://www.tmalliance.com/uploads/006457/archie2.jpg
Just a disarming gesture to what I just wrote.

mjl08
2008-Aug-08, 22:36
I don't think I'm part of the PC gestapo simply because I question a poster who claims that "lesser cultures" are turning East Danforth into a mini Tehran.

Admiral Beez
2008-Aug-09, 00:41
http://jihadwatch.org/islam101/

adma
2008-Aug-09, 01:16
Re Archie Bunker: well, more than anything in Toronto, those Danforth/East York neighbourhoods *do* probably merit a cinematic treatment a la the "All In The Family" closing credits...

AlvinofDiaspar
2008-Aug-09, 22:31
From the Globe:

OLD EAST YORK: THE SEEDY SIDE OF THE STREET
A taste of the other Danforth
The Riverdale vibe dies at Jones and the gritty strip to the east is taking its time gentrifying, reports Adam Radwanski. Maybe that's not such a bad thing

ADAM RADWANSKI

August 9, 2008

On a Sunday afternoon at the corner of Byron and Danforth, worlds are intersecting.

Bedecked in traditional white robes and caps, Muslim men stroll past on their way to and from the Madina Masjid. Mostly, their walk takes them past the halal shops and Islamic bookstores that have sprung up around the landmark mosque. But at the end of the block, they encounter a rather different crowd - a crew of mustachioed old-time East Yorkers taking a break from the vices offered inside the corner's off-track gambling site to smoke and pace the sidewalk.

If either group is uneasy with this arrangement, it doesn't show. Like most of the establishments along the other, grittier Danforth - the one that stands in stark contrast to booming Greektown, where Taste of the Danforth is expected to draw more than one million revellers this weekend - they have both been around long enough to have mastered the art of co-existence. For the ethnic eateries, the old-school diners and the rough-and-tumble sports bars that line the strip all the way east to Woodbine and beyond, it's live and let live.

Only a slightly less-visible constituency might beg to differ. Since that constituency is rapidly taking over the residential streets that surround the eastern stretch of Danforth, it might have expected to get its way. By all appearances, it's not.

What was once working-class East York is being taken over by young professionals - newlyweds and parents-to-be who have no time for the suburbs, but can't afford to buy their first houses downtown.

The nearby neighbourhoods, filled with houses that predate the Second World War, offer a compromise. They're safe, there's a plethora of nearby schools and the Bloor-Danforth subway line means easy access to the rest of the city.

And if you've watched what's happened in countless other rapidly gentrifying segments of Toronto, there's the reasonable expectation that the main drag is on its way to bigger and better things.

THE NEXT RIVERDALE?

Here, that means the trendier version of the Danforth moving east - a development that is supposed to be only a matter of time.

"What used to be a pretty ordinary strip along the Broadview-Danforth area has become more upscale, more desirable, because people started moving east," says Pat Silver, who heads the sprawling new Danforth Mosaic business improvement association, which runs roughly from Jones to Woodbine. "Now, that is continuing, I think, that eastern movement."

Constable Rob McDonald, a 19-year veteran of 55 Division with enough enthusiasm for the area to double as its tourism officer, shares Ms. Silver's optimism. "It's trending toward becoming the new Riverdale," he says. "It's still affordable for young families, where other points of the street are not. And with that comes the expectations of what families are looking for, so then you see more restaurants pop up and more shops. It's really positive."

This all makes sense, but for one small problem: Save for a brief stretch east of Pape Avenue, the Danforth isn't visibly changing much at all.

Up until Jones Avenue, there's legitimate Riverdale creep. Greek restaurants. Starbucks. A women's shop offering, among other things, organic menstrual products. And then it stops.

Suddenly, your watering holes are more likely to come in the form of sports bars populated by middle-aged men with eighties concert T-shirts and questionable dental work, whiling away their weekday afternoons drinking beer on patios. Your restaurant meals are more affordable, but likely involve neither flaming cheese nor pad Thai. You encounter fewer baby carriages, and when they do pass by, the women pushing them aren't dressed as though heading for a night on the town.

Chris Wood can attest to all this. The proprietor of the Hargrave pub has succeeded in turning his appealing little establishment - a haven for upscale beer drinkers and dart players that sits west of Greenwood, just a few blocks from Jones - into one of those expected neighbourhood hot spots. But it's a lonelier experience than he had anticipated.

"When I came here nine years ago, I could see that it wasn't the greatest neighbourhood in the world," he says. "I had expected that the good part of the Danforth had pretty much only one direction to go, and I was expecting that it was obviously going to make it down to me. But it most definitely is taking longer than I thought. People have come and gone, but this particular stretch of the Danforth remains the same."

That means a lack of surrounding businesses to create pedestrian traffic. "It's kind of nice to be the nicest little place around," he says. "But competition is good - it brings people to the neighbourhood. Anything we can do to get people out walking by, that would be the way to go."

GENTRIFICATION STOPS HERE

Mr. Wood, who moved into a nearby bungalow, has the misfortune of being at one of the deadest spots on the Danforth - the stretch between Donlands and Greenwood.

Indelicate though it may be to mention, demographics play a role in that.

With roots dating back to the 1970s, the Madina Masjid - just to the west of the Hargrave - boasts about 2,000 members and anticipates eventual growth to 3,500. Many members have moved to the surrounding area, creating a thriving block around the mosque. In a sense, it's achieving exactly what has been prescribed for the east Danforth - an influx of independently owned restaurants and stores. It's even doing its part to beautify the strip, with a massive expansion project that promises to create a spectacular 25,000-square-foot structure complete with minaret and dome.

Inadvertently, though, it also serves as a buffer. The businesses that thrive to the west have no market there, and neither do the Muslim community's own establishments have much pretense of catering to a wider clientele. "They don't really participate in the neighbourhood," Mr. Wood says. "They're very self-contained."

To continue its eastward expansion, Riverdale would have to leapfrog a close-knit, insular community that is not going anywhere. And that's all the more difficult because of the landscape that surrounds it.

In most downtown areas, gentrification of the major throughway means converting storefronts and renovating small buildings. But between Donlands and Greenwood, the Danforth has the barren markings of 20th-century suburbia.

Even when they are in full use, its utilitarian structures and spaces - a funeral home here, a car rental lot there, an LCBO popular among residents of a neighbouring low-rent apartment building - give the street an oppressive sterility. When they sit empty, as the Roxy Theatre has for years (it's now destined to become an Esso, though the gas station has pledged to restore the theatre's historic facade), they make things worse. And the detox clinic and week-to-week rentals across the street don't do much for the ambience, either.

"There's a lot of things on that strip that deaden it," acknowledges Toronto Councillor Paula Fletcher, whose ward covers the south side of Danforth west of Coxwell. "This is a challenge that the Danforth has there that the other section of the Danforth simply doesn't have.

"Nothing is going to be going on on that street at night - it won't have lots of people walking along there. It'll be different. But just farther to the east is far more animated."

Sure enough, the Danforth regains a bit of its mojo east of Greenwood. The new home buyers expecting it to suddenly become the new Greektown are still in for disappointment: The buffer zone is just too big. But for those weary of gentrification's sanitizing effects, that might have its upside.

STEADY EVOLUTION IN THE FAR EAST

The Danforth Mosaic, which recently combined two nascent business associations to become the largest one in the city, is so named in honour of what Pat Silver calls "the United Nations right here."

Along the east Danforth, immigrant families have carved out pockets for themselves. And from the Italian bakeries that date back 40 years to the cluster of Ethiopian eateries that have sprouted up in recent years, they've maintained a modest middle-class sensibility that differentiates them from flashier alternatives elsewhere in the city.

None of it would qualify as bustling, but there are enough hidden gems and eccentric holes-in-the-wall to lend a sense of discovery to a stroll along the strip.

Ms. Silver's group is planning beautification efforts - street banners and flower planters among them - aimed at creating more of a collective identity. But working alongside the BIA, Ms. Fletcher seems intent on celebrating the area's character. She admits, as does Ms. Silver, that she could do without the sprinkling of rub-and-tugs. But she's fine with it maintaining a bit of its grit.

"That's the east end," Ms. Fletcher says when asked about the sports bars. "Having an interesting mix is sometimes what younger people like. You don't always want pristine."

Her fellow councillor, Janet Davis, whose ward includes the north side of the Danforth east of Coxwell, is of a similar view. "It's our neighbourhood, it's local, it has an interesting character and we're building on it," she says. "It's an urban environment that reflects the ethnic diversity of the neighbourhood, but also is in a transition to something else."

That transition, though, is not nearly as drastic as it could be. It has seen some nods to the influx of young professionals, notably the celebrated farmers' market that has set up shop every Thursday this summer at East Lynn Park, west of Woodbine. But because Riverdale is effectively blocked off, it's happening at its own pace.

"To me, what's great is nobody's being pushed out - everybody's being kind of blended in," Constable McDonald says. "They all have their place, because they all cater to a different clientele, and it really makes the section unique. It's not like people are going out saying, 'Okay, we need a cookie-cutter form of business or residence.' It's all different."

"Different" may not be what every new homeowner is looking for. But in a city where Roncesvalles is no longer Polish and Queen West is only borderline bohemian and Greektown isn't all that Greek, there's something to be said for a stretch that doesn't toss away its identity in the name of progress.

If the Madina Masjid faithful can get along with the off-track gamblers, perhaps the refugees from downtown will content themselves with co-existing as well.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080809.DANFORTH09/TPStory/TPEntertainment/Ontario/?pageRequested=all

AoD

robbiedigital
2008-Sep-05, 17:22
....there was a shooting at the Main St. Subway Station last night...at the bus terminal.

That's it..just saying...don't mean anything by it WHATsoever. *ahem* told you so *ahem*

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080905/080905_shootings_TTC/20080905/?hub=CP24Home

Tony
2008-Sep-05, 18:40
'lesser cultures'. You serious?

mjl08
2008-Sep-05, 23:20
....there was a shooting at the Main St. Subway Station last night...at the bus terminal.

That's it..just saying...don't mean anything by it WHATsoever. *ahem* told you so *ahem*

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080905/080905_shootings_TTC/20080905/?hub=CP24Home


It's called city life, RobbieDigital. A few months ago a random woman, completely unprovoked, was stabbed by a reckless man wandering around Broadview & Danforth. That hardly makes it South Central LA.

robbiedigital
2008-Sep-15, 14:53
'lesser cultures'. You serious?

Why is this so hard to believe, other than that it is offensive to PC sensibilities, which are a load of horseshit to begin with?

Canada, the US, Australia, western Europe, even India are a product of Western culture (ideals, social constructs, systems of government, law, etc).

The middle-east, northern Africa = products of Islamic culture

You tell me which places you'd rather live. No, it's not a coincidence either.

Skeezix
2008-Sep-16, 09:11
Why is this so hard to believe, other than that it is offensive to PC sensibilities, which are a load of horseshit to begin with?

Canada, the US, Australia, western Europe, even India are a product of Western culture (ideals, social constructs, systems of government, law, etc).

The middle-east, northern Africa = products of Islamic culture

You tell me which places you'd rather live. No, it's not a coincidence either.

It's hard to take you seriously when you post nonsense like this.

robbiedigital
2008-Sep-16, 10:19
It's hard to take you seriously when you post nonsense like this.

Exactly what part of it is non-sense? The proof is in the pudding. If you're to blind or naive to see that, then that's your problem.

The fact that the Middle East, despite having an insane amount of oil reserves (unlike, say, legitimately poor African nations) is a shit-hole is a direct result of the religion and culture of the region.

For example, separation of Church and State is a completely foreign concept in Islamic nations, but a very very important one that has allowed the West to progress.

In any case, if you're not even able to debate what I'm saying in an intelligent way, there's not much point to this discussion. Simply saying "that's nonsense" because you've been brainwashed with ludicrous PC notions that "everyone is equal" is not an argument.

Tony
2008-Sep-16, 12:47
So the guy who labels the Middle East a shithole is calling for an intelligent argument? Throwing out talk of oil reserves and seperation of church and state isn't hiding the racist foundation of what you're saying, and neither is your dismissal of cultural equality as 'ludicrous PC notions'.

robbiedigital
2008-Sep-16, 13:09
So the guy who labels the Middle East a shithole is calling for an intelligent argument? Throwing out talk of oil reserves and seperation of church and state isn't hiding the racist foundation of what you're saying, and neither is your dismissal of cultural equality as 'ludicrous PC notions'.

Oh, the majority of it isn't? Go live in Iran then, and see how it is. Or better yet Syria...or maybe Saudi?

Racist foundation? What RACE would that be? You people are fucking morons...just throwing around words (racism!) without even understanding the meaning behind them. There are numerous RACES inhabiting the region, you twat.

Whether or not you consider me "racist" or not, I don't give a shit...cultural equality is absolutely false. And I'm not even arguing for my own background or culture at the moment...just in general.

Is the culture of the native people of South America equivalent to that of the Japanese? You would argue "yes", because otherwise you'd be called a racist, god forbid. Well, that and you're dumb. But they're clearly not. Why? Well...one is responsible for Japan, and the others are living in a jungle. See? It's pretty simple. That's not to say that one is all bad and the other is all good...but overall.

Tony
2008-Sep-16, 13:11
Oh my, you are so intelligent.

AlvinofDiaspar
2008-Sep-16, 21:45
This thread is not a critique of Muslim culture. If you are into that sort of thing, there are forums elsewhere online devoted to such.

AoD

theman23
2008-Sep-17, 00:14
You people are fucking morons..

What do you mean "you people"?

Tdot_one
2008-Sep-17, 09:14
Oh, the majority of it isn't? Go live in Iran then, and see how it is. Or better yet Syria...or maybe Saudi? Are you not familiar with the indigenous secular movements in these "backward" states? Former Prime Minister Mossadegh of Iran attempted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry and develop democratic and secular institutions. In other words, a sustainable community. However Iran was overthrown by UK and US who felt that was within their interest to support a despotic Pahlavi regime.

The same applies to Africa where the secular leader, Patrice Lumumba of the Republic of Congo who was assasinated by Western governments (Belgian, UK, and US). This led to the war that's hit Southern Africa killing millions. Similarly colonialism has left scars on the continent that has yet to disappear.

Back to the totalitarian regimes in the oil-rich Middle East. Nations such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, and what not have been backed by the West since the beginning of the cold war. In fact, without the Western powers, these nations would literally collapse. Intelligence and weaponry not to mention capital (through oil imports) provided effectively destroyed secular movements in the Middle East.

What about Syria, Yemen and other nations not directly aided by the West? Well, Saudi Arabia et al often backed anti-democratic religious elements within these nations. In fact thanks to Israel, UK and US, they used Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to arm religious fanatics in Afghanistan. Now we see fanatical movements running around Central Asia, Middle East and sometimes even our side.


Racist foundation? What RACE would that be? You people are fucking morons...just throwing around words (racism!) without even understanding the meaning behind them. There are numerous RACES inhabiting the region, you twat. The term race isn't scientific, but rather a socio-cultural construct. No point in demanding others to define races. It's pointless. Instead we should understand the concept of racism which is actually a race-based hierarchy.

In this hierarchal system, the white race is the dominant while "others" are subordinate. I see no need to define "others", because white race represents a narrow Judeo-Christian, Western European archetype which the former is not a part of. Note that the so called "Caucasian" race isn't technical. No one in the Middle East actually views themselves as "Caucasian". In fact culturally (Afro-Asiatic, Turkic tongue, Islam, etc) and genetically (E3b, J, etc) cluster with Africans (Blacks included) and South/ West Asians.

The peoples in this region don't fall under the "white" archetype unless we're referring to Mesopotamians. In that case, this group of people would be "white" under the erroneous racist system. See the bullshit in the hierarchy? If we refer to history, we'd see that Western Europeans saw civilization very recently, and its parent in Southern Europe is the offspring of the African and West Asian civilizations.

In fact, the "civilization-based" or technological hierarchy often changes. It certainly isn't static.


Whether or not you consider me "racist" or not, I don't give a shit...cultural equality is absolutely false. And I'm not even arguing for my own background or culture at the moment...just in general. It's true that cultural equality may not be true, but we need to look at WHY these disparities exist. None are natural, AAA says it well:


The tragedy in the United States has been that the policies and practices stemming from this worldview succeeded all too well in constructing unequal populations among Europeans, Native Americans, and peoples of African descent. Given what we know about the capacity of normal humans to achieve and function within any culture, we conclude that present-day inequalities between so-called "racial" groups are not consequences of their biological inheritance but products of historical and contemporary social, economic, educational, and political circumstances. Link (http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm) That said, Muslims in the West AFAIK are largely peaceful people. It's obvious that a number may frown at the West's hypocritical foreign policy and its history of sponsoring terrorism. I don't see anything wrong with that. And sure we may see honour killings on our side, but honestly, if foreign elements didn't destroy the secular movements, these traditions may have been no more.


Is the culture of the native people of South America equivalent to that of the Japanese? You would argue "yes", because otherwise you'd be called a racist, god forbid. Well, that and you're dumb. But they're clearly not. Why? Well...one is responsible for Japan, and the others are living in a jungle. See? It's pretty simple. That's not to say that one is all bad and the other is all good...but overall. Huh? The Incan culture was quite sophisticated as well. It's rather unfortunate that the indigenous peoples didn't kill the Europeans vs. sheltering them. Like what my Korean roommate says, that too is a sign of a weakness.

Edward Skira
2008-Sep-17, 11:54
robbiedigital has been banned for his conduct here.

Observer Walt
2008-Sep-17, 18:56
^ Thank you. I am a latecomer, having just stumbled upon this thread, but it's amazing how a thread allegedly about one thing can degenerate so rapidly into something else entirely.

Now if anyone has legitimate comments about the East Danforth neighbourhood ...

Tony
2008-Sep-18, 00:48
I have no problem debating an issue, but I'm not about to waste my time on someone who tells you how it is while leaving no room for civilized debate. Good riddance.

northstar
2008-Sep-20, 01:03
I had to laugh at the person who made the comment about Archie Bunker houses.
My Dad said exactly the same thing about this area when he visited me for the first time.

In other news....

Danforth Village (between Main and Victoria Park) has created a Business Improvement District.
I'm not sure how active it is, especially since the last newsletter on the website is dated May 2008.

http://www.dvbia.ca/

I noticed new planters have been placed along the street.
However, they really need to do something more to better soften the street along this strip.

I'm not sure if trees would help or not. It depends if they could live long enough before succumbing to pollution.
Perhaps they could try things like a boulevard, street islands, or even angle parking.

Also, that concrete wall along Shopper's World (the former Eaton's store) needs streetfacing retail storefronts in a HUGE way.
Right now it looks like a prison all the way from the Zellers parking lot eastward.

One or two new stores have opened up, but the area still needs a lot of work.
One brave soul has tried to open a somewhat upscale looking restaurant called Bistro Camino.
I've passed it a few times, but I've never seen anyone in there.
It's a few doors down from a homeless shelter, so I'm not sure if that scares people away.

Anyhow, this neighbourhood is definitely still on the gritty side, but I like it.
Given the fact that downtown is accessible (Subway, Main Streetcar, Go Train), and it's not too far from the trendier Beach or Greektown (10 or 15 minute bike ride), I find this area is somewhat of a bargain, especially if one can overlook a bit of the grit. :)

shilly
2008-Sep-20, 01:37
You know...I have a friend who lives in the area and after dark...it still is a dodgy area. I can name off the places that are either Crack dens, or have allowed drug users to well...use drugs on their premises. Walking through their at night is pretty frightening, and it has everything to do with I believe the scattering of individuals from regent park into the neighbouring low income housing.

Now not to come off as Namby or anything but it used to be a quiet area a couple of years ago. It has suddenly come off the rails and desperately needs some community centres or an increased police presence.

That and the crack addicts walking around at night willing and asking to do anything to get some 'rock', kinda gets me going.

mjl08
2008-Oct-26, 17:55
For those interested, I just found out about the Danforth East Community Association (http://www.danfortheast.ca), which represents the Danforth from Coxwell to Woodbine.

Mustapha
2008-Oct-28, 13:36
I don't know if if Woodbine and Danforth qualifies as 'East Danforth' but a walk last night found a store display with this old school mannequin.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/DSCF1037.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/DSCF1038.jpg

GTS
2008-Nov-08, 13:13
I am jumping on this thread as I am looking for information about Donlands Station. I use Victoria Park Station and am glad to report that the construction has begun for the Station Modernization Program. The construction company, Ellis Don, is putting temporary bus bays where the existing parking lot is, so the parking lot will lose a few spots during construction. Once the temp. bus bay is ready they will be able to tear down the old upper seperated bus bays and begin constructing the much more commuter friendly Vic. Park Station with all bus bays on the same level, on floor down from the subway and I will be able to wait for my bus indoors one day in the future.

I had the day off today and was walking by Donlands Station and saw that they are constructing something there, the bus bays are all boarded off, I didn't have time to check it out and I don't know where the 83 and 56 buses are stopping during construction. I don't even know what kind of work is going on as I didn't have time to stop. If anyone has any info. on what is going on please let me know- I appreciate all the improvements the TTC is doing for this transit system.

DSC
2008-Nov-08, 19:11
I am jumping on this thread as I am looking for information about Donlands Station. I had the day off today and was walking by Donlands Station and saw that they are constructing something there, the bus bays are all boarded off, I didn't have time to check it out and I don't know where the 83 and 56 buses are stopping during construction. I don't even know what kind of work is going on as I didn't have time to stop. If anyone has any info. on what is going on please let me know- I appreciate all the improvements the TTC is doing for this transit system.

The TTC website reports: Donlands Station Bus Loop Closed for Rehabilitation
As part of the Toronto Transit Commission’s ongoing state of good repair program, beginning on August 25, 2008, the bus loop at Donlands Station will be closed for concrete pavement rehabilitation work. The project is scheduled for completion by early December 2008. See: http://www3.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Construction/Donlands_station.jsp

nfitz
2008-Nov-08, 20:39
You know...I have a friend who lives in the area and after dark...it still is a dodgy area. I can name off the places that are either Crack dens, or have allowed drug users to well...use drugs on their premises. Walking through their at night is pretty frightening, and it has everything to do with I believe the scattering of individuals from regent park into the neighbouring low income housing.That's odd - crime rates seem relatively low compared to many parts of the city. I've never thought twice about wandering down Danforth.

mjl08
2008-Nov-10, 14:09
There are certain "blocks" on the Danforth I'd avoid after eleven:

Caithness to Greenwood
Coxwell intersection
East Lynne Park
Morton to Main Steet intersection (& Main Square)

Still, I'd take a 2:00 AM stroll through Main & Danforth before a Queen & Sherbourne crawl, any day. As far as crack houses? I certainly know of none around Donlands, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two around Main or Vic Park.

adma
2008-Nov-10, 21:44
Though the East York part of Dawes Road always had that crack-housey vibe to it...

nfitz
2008-Nov-11, 00:47
There are certain "blocks" on the Danforth I'd avoid after eleven:

Caithness to Greenwood
Coxwell intersection
East Lynne Park
Morton to Main Steet intersection (& Main Square)Really ... I'm often around the Coxwell intersection well after 11 pm. Never once saw anything that would concern me. When I read the crime reports in the local papers, half the time, the incidents occur in broad daylight.

This live in fear thing always disturbs me - and confounds me. Far more people are killed simply crossing the street in Toronto, than by strangers on the street.

GTS
2008-Nov-12, 16:12
I am fine on East Danforth at night but, my wife is very nervous, in fact she will not go there at night anymore.

urbandreamer
2008-Nov-12, 17:10
How is the new mosque looking these days? Who wants to pay me to do a photo tour (time, TTC tokens, and food)?

Joe
2008-Dec-10, 12:39
Just a note about East Lynn Park - you can tell it's safe at night pretty easily - parents leave lots of toys there over night. You wouldn't see that anywhere where there would be concerns about stuff getting stolen or damaged.

mjl08
2008-Dec-10, 14:09
Thanks for the tidbit, Joe. I always thought the park was different night versus day.... farmers markets in the morning and stabbings at dawn.... a friend of mine was mugged there a few years ago so if its improved, all the better.

nfitz
2008-Dec-11, 12:46
Dawn - so that's near the end of rush-hour these days :) Sigh, I'm tired of walking to the subway in the dark in the morning, and from it in the dark in the afternoon.

mjl08
2008-Dec-12, 02:19
Heh, those farmers market vendors and muggers are one in the same... $5 for local organic arugula!? Thievery!!

Joe
2008-Dec-16, 13:43
No problem, MJL.

My wife and I just bought in the area, we like it so much. It's got issues (what neighbourhood doesn't?), but is still good, and is "up and coming" with young families, even in the slow economy nowadays.

The Danforth East Community Association (http://www.danfortheast.ca/) and the Danforth Mosaic BIA (http://www.danforthmosaicbia.com/blog/) seem to be doing good work - both are relatively new organizations, too.

northstar
2008-Dec-17, 22:14
There's also a group called the Danforth Village Business Improvement Area or the DVBIA www.dvbia.ca (http://www.dvbia.ca/).

This covers an area from just west of Main Street and stretches east towards Victoria Park.
Like the organizations mentioned in the previous post, the DVBIA is fairly new also. Whether it maintains any sort of momentum remains to be seen.

This area is gritty, but it "can" improve... it will take a lot of work though.

A good start would be to blast some streetfacing retail into the solid brick wall that lines the west-end of the Shoppers World mall.
Zellers should have a entrance on Danforth.

In addition, the businesses to the east of Zellers need to have entrances on Danforth as well.
Currently the entrance is from behind - totally geared to those who drive into the mall's parking lot.

adma
2008-Dec-17, 22:28
Though may I reiterate a very ambitious concept I've had in the past, especially if Zellers etc decamps for elsewhere: making do with the mall altogether, stripping it to its skeleton (pre-Shopper's World, this was an Albert Kahn auto plant, the most River Rouge-ian thing in town--and the topsy-turvy roof monitors are a remnant of that), and turning it into a community marketplace...

GTS
2008-Dec-18, 21:57
Northstar, I saw a good idea that might fit well for the Zellers Shoppers World Plaza. When I first moved here to TO a few years ago my wife and I lived not far from a real ugly mall at Morningside and Kingston Rd. They have torn down the old mall and built some stores that are much more pedestrian friendly from the sidewalks. On the inside of all these building is the parking for the people that have to drive. I thought this type of design might fit well for the Zellers and Shoppers World area, it would still provide parking for the people who will never give up their cars (no matter what the price of fuel is) and it will service the high amount of pedestrian traffic in that area. Check out the area around Morningside and Kingston and see if you think that type of design would work for Zellers and everything. Whatever happens I hope that their is a Coffee Time in whatever they choose for the area-that is where I meet a friend of mine once a week for a talk.

mjl08
2008-Dec-19, 00:19
I walked past Greenwood & Danforth today and there was this packed vegetarian restaurant opposite the abandoned KFC... it looked like it has Toronto Life and NOW reviews in the window, anyone know what that place is called and if its any good?

As well, I noticed that The Only Cafe at Donlands (my regular when I'm in town) bought the nextdoor retailer and turned it into a coffee shop called "The One and Only."

northstar
2008-Dec-20, 23:44
... a real ugly mall at Morningside and Kingston Rd. They have torn down the old mall and built some stores that are much more pedestrian friendly from the sidewalks.
I know the mall you are talking about.
Old 1960 style malls all over the country are getting facelifts.
A similar thing is happening to Don Mills Shopping Centre at Lawrence & Don Mills.

Shoppers World is okay... it's basically an outdoor shopping mall as opposed to an indoor shopping mall.
It underwent a facelift about 10 yrs ago when the Dominion (now Metro) expanded to the East, and an addition was made (where the Coffeetime now stands).
The problem with this facelift is that it left a cold brick wall facing Danforth, where there should have been streetfacing retail.

A retail deadzone was created.
I hope the DVBIA realizes this, and works with the mall to try and rectify the planning error.

The area will probably never become as trendy as the Greektown, Leslieville or the Beach area; but I think little things like opening up this cold brick wall at the northwest end of Shoppers World would help nudge along improvements in the right direction.

adma
2008-Dec-20, 23:55
Shoppers World is okay... it's basically an outdoor shopping mall as opposed to an indoor shopping mall.
It underwent a facelift about 10 yrs ago when the Dominion (now Metro) expanded to the East, and an addition was made (where the Coffeetime now stands).
The problem with this facelift is that it left a cold brick wall facing Danforth, where there should have been streetfacing retail.

A retail deadzone was created.
I hope the DVBIA realizes this, and works with the mall to try and rectify the planning error.

Yeah, what basically happened is that Zellers basically took over almost all of the original indoor mall in the name of big-box scale.

And as I indicated, the main thing that'd make a total Shopper's World teardown seem shortsighted is that there's the corpse of industrial heritage underneath that begs creative resurrection, of some sort...

Skeezix
2008-Dec-22, 10:33
Yeah, what basically happened is that Zellers basically took over almost all of the original indoor mall in the name of big-box scale.

And as I indicated, the main thing that'd make a total Shopper's World teardown seem shortsighted is that there's the corpse of industrial heritage underneath that begs creative resurrection, of some sort...

You're right. I'm not sure, though, if anything substantial is left of the old World War II-era plant (wasn't it an aircraft factory?). But a redevelopment that paid tribute to its industrial past, and maybe even preserved anything that happened to have survived all the refurbs of the past decades, would be quite cool.

It also used to be an Eaton's store back in the 1960s.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/canadianskeezix/EatonsShoppers.jpg

adma
2008-Dec-22, 22:23
You're right. I'm not sure, though, if anything substantial is left of the old World War II-era plant (wasn't it an aircraft factory?).

Actually, we're talking more about WWI-era than WWII-era: it was a Ford plant, and it may actually have been by Albert Kahn, i.e. our very own mini-River Rouge. Then Ford decamped for Oakville, and the plant was swallowed up by Shopper's World. But look at the topsy-turvy (and now apparently useless) roof monitors for a hint of what was. The scale of it is certainly substantial, even if other than the roof, it bears absolutely no resemblance to what once was.

Strip the mall away, strip it to its skeleton, turn it into a community marketplace, and you've reclaimed industrial archaeology...

mjl08
2008-Dec-30, 00:44
Does anyone know the status of the mosque at Donlands and Danforth? And whats with the big spire, is it going to be a minaret?

Joe
2009-Jan-05, 17:54
Some news from the East:

Neighbourhood "upgrades" local deli:

Danforth deli gets extreme makeover (Star) (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/561619)

Locals start extreme make-over of Danforth (National Post) (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=1138198)



Review of Melanie's Bistro

Melanie’s Bistro & Patisserie (Toronto Life) (http://www.torontolife.com/guide/restaurants/bistro/melanies-bistro-patisserie/)

I can personally recommend Melanie's Bistro, too. After moving in to our house in the area just before Christmas, we took all our friends here for a late lunch, and everything was fantastic and very well priced. All of us are planning return trips. It's on the north side of the Danforth, about halfway between Coxwell and Woodbine - just west of East Lynn Park.

Anchorless
2009-Feb-13, 12:49
Oh my, this thread has been an interesting read.

Anyway, I'm a long time reader, first time poster.

I'm pretty new to the area (I'm on Coxwell a bit south of Danforth) but in my short time, it's been great. I've walked the stretch of Danforth west from Coxwell to Chester a few times and it's neat seeing so many distinct neighbourhoods all on the same street. There are tons of different shops and restaurants and pubs, etc. along the way. Sure there may be a couple of boarded up stores here or there, but not to the point that it's alarming. I don't think I've ever felt unsafe there either.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to enjoying the neighbourhood when it gets a little warmer.

Marccram
2009-Feb-21, 15:15
For those of you who would rather engage than be disrespectful the following links are given:

The Pocket

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=47392317770

The Mosque

http://www.madinamasjid.ca/MadinaMasjid/content/viewer.aspx?cid=mainpage

The BIA

http://www.danforthmosaicbia.com/blog/

adma
2009-Feb-21, 15:33
http://blogto.com/restaurants/busterminal

lesouris
2009-Feb-22, 17:29
Does anyone know the status of the mosque at Donlands and Danforth? And whats with the big spire, is it going to be a minaret?

Here are some articles about the mosque:
The National Post (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/10/24/an-eight-storey-minaret-for-the-danforth.aspx)
The Star (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/591038)

It's too bad they're not going to use the minaret to make the call for prayers. I've always found the adhan beautiful. It's too bad too that a lot of churches don't ring their bells anymore. I'm not by any means religious, but I feel they're integral sounds in a diverse urban environment - not to mention a nice break from the sounds of traffic, sirens, etc.

Eug
2009-Apr-29, 16:08
I attended one of the Kingston Road EA (http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/kingston_road_ea/pdf/newsletter-03.pdf) info meetings and was a little surprised by the comments by a group of Danforth business owners.

There is a plan (with no money behind it yet) to put dedicated transit lanes along Kingston Road as part of the rezoning-for-revitalization of Kingston Road. These would cross over to Danforth, and eventually meet up with the Victoria Park subway station (or less likely, the Main St. station).

What surprised me was that the few Danforth business owners that showed up were dead set against it. It seemed they wanted nothing to do with dedicated bus lanes, and only wanted more Green P parking or whatever.

My impression is that if Kingston Road really is rezoned for better mixed residential/commercial/retail use, the connection up with Vic Park is not only necessary for Kingston Road, but is also of significant potential benefit for the Vic Park/Danforth area, in terms of foot traffic.

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 16:23
Dear Eug,

You should not be too surprised, business owners seem to think every person who shops at their business has a car. They never consider the other side, the locals in their neighbourhood. If the area has intensification, that would mean more customers, and more who would need to come by public transport.
Who wouldn't want more customers? But if they expect us all to drive there, their hopes are misplaced.
They need to know I won't shop at a business that thwarts the improvement of public transport access. Do you have a list of these business owners?

Eug
2009-Apr-29, 16:35
Do you have a list of these business owners?
No I do not.

However, in their defence, they did say their objections were based on their own local assessments of their clientele. They noted the vast majority of their clientele come via car.

The weird part of their argument though is that the purpose of the Kingston Road plan is not to look at even the near term, but mainly at the mid-term to long-term. While I could see zoning laws along Kingston Road change sooner rather than later, (within the next few years), I'd be very surprised to see dedicated bus lanes as envisioned by the Kingston Road EA within 10 years, because no monies would be set aside by the TTC and govts, until that area can demonstrate increased ridership, and that won't happen until well after significant redevelopment occurs in the region (which in turn won't happen until well after rezoning occurs).

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 16:52
Interesting info Eug, in the short term though we are going to have to build the infrastructure first for the long term.

The automobile structure of our city will fade, unfortunately most who own them don't realize that yet. When the infrastructure is in place to serve the potential increase in the population, we will be well served and further zoning and development will follow.

We need public transportation now to stimulate the increase densities to support it. We can not wait ten years and say "oh we should have built something" The city was not built for the automobile, the suburbs were!

dt_toronto_geek
2009-Apr-29, 17:12
I heard that the Roxy Cinema (formally The Allenby, Art Moderne, 1939) at Greenwood & Danforth is finally succumbing to the wrecking ball. I had always hoped that the building would survive long enough until the area could support an east end cinema. If what I was told was correct, the front of the building will remain but the rest will go and then be rebuilt into a service station or something.
So many great memories there, it's so sad to see it go.

A few memories, for those who were there in the late '70's/early '80's when the place really rocked.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_bytheboxoffice2.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/bytheboxoffice2.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_RoxyToronto.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/RoxyToronto.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_roxy_auditorium.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/roxy_auditorium.jpg)

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 17:21
That's right a gas station, how long is that going to last?

And really if they need a gas station, couldn't they build a six storey building above it too like in Europe or Manhattan?

Eug
2009-Apr-29, 18:31
Interesting info Eug, in the short term though we are going to have to build the infrastructure first for the long term.

The automobile structure of our city will fade, unfortunately most who own them don't realize that yet. When the infrastructure is in place to serve the potential increase in the population, we will be well served and further zoning and development will follow.

We need public transportation now to stimulate the increase densities to support it. We can not wait ten years and say "oh we should have built something" The city was not built for the automobile, the suburbs were!
That's not what's going to happen. Representatives from the TTC were there and specifically said that the Kingston Road corridor is not their priority, and they have no money for dedicated lanes anyway. What they did say however, is that they are coming up with the transit plan for a revitalized Kingston Road now, so that if they do decide to invest in it in the future (ie. 2020 or later?) the plan is already in place, and is easily adjusted as needed. Some of these plans take 10 years or longer to solidify.

I can understand their position, as ridership there is comparatively low, and will remain low until density goes up.

OTOH, city council is keen on rezoning the area. Rezoning basically costs nothing, yet can increase the tax base through redevelopment. Right now the area is zoned for low density commercial/retail (or something like that), etc. Rezoning would change that to mid-density mixed use commercial/retail and residential. My understanding is that the recommendation will be to allow buildings up to around 11-12 stories in some areas along Kingston Road. Whether or not city council approves that or not is up in the air, but they're keen to do so. I could see that happening by 2010.

So, even if that happens by 2010, and developers start building shortly afterwards, I really can't see ridership increasing that much for a decade.



That's right a gas station, how long is that going to last?

And really if they need a gas station, couldn't they build a six storey building above it too like in Europe or Manhattan?
A gas station with a theatre front? Hmmm...

P.S. Kinda off topic, but re: gas stations... It depends on how they decide to zone the area. Gas stations can be zoned out of existence, sort of. I believe that an existing gas station can stay there as long as they want, and the owners can sell it as a gas station too. However, if the city were to decide it didn't want gas stations there, they could zone the area in such a way to exclude gas stations. While any existing gas stations would be grandfathered, as soon as it gets changed to something else, it can never be a gas station again (unless then change the zoning laws yet again).

OTOH, I believe the city wants to keep East Danforth more retail/commercial than what they're envisioning for nearby Kingston Road, but I could be mistaken.

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 18:45
My point is that the City and the TTC need to move fast to get the infrastructure in place. Then things will follow.

As to the gas station at Greenwood and Danforth, I'm not against a gas station per se but can they not build above it with condos or apartments to intensify the area since there are two subway stops nearby. Is this not capitalism, make a few more bucks on top of the fuel charge? Do they not care about city building and being a good corporate citizen or is it just the bottom line?

Eug
2009-Apr-29, 19:11
My point is that the City and the TTC need to move fast to get the infrastructure in place. Then things will follow.

As to the gas station at Greenwood and Danforth, I'm not against a gas station per se but can they not build above it with condos or apartments to intensify the area since there are two subway stops nearby. Is this not capitalism, make a few more bucks on top of the fuel charge? Do they not care about city building and being a good corporate citizen or is it just the bottom line?
Does the area even allow such building? Even if they did I personally wouldn't buy a place over a gas station. Would you?

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 19:22
Sure a fifth floor condo with a 1200 sq ft terrace facing southwest overlooking the City of Toronto.
As long as all the conditions for containing toxic vapours are met, and I'd ensure on that!!! That's the way I am

Nice chatting with you i'm at marccram4444@hotmail.com

digi
2009-Apr-29, 19:45
Sure a fifth floor condo with a 1200 sq ft terrace facing southwest overlooking the City of Toronto.

Wow, you'd pay a million to live over a gas station?

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 19:47
Maybe 379

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 19:52
I already live next to a fire station, one street south of Danforth, over the subway entrance to Greenwood yards. If I can get a nice view that's a bonus!

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 19:54
Forgot to mention the fire station is the gas depot for other stations in the area.

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 20:35
Here's how

adma
2009-Apr-29, 21:42
I asked Jane Jacobs(!) about Euro-style highrises-atop-gas-stations back in the early 90s. She--yes, she, Jane Jacobs--advised against it, for safety reasons.

Marccram
2009-Apr-29, 22:00
And so what have the records of safety been since?

Skeezix
2009-Apr-30, 10:40
P.S. Kinda off topic, but re: gas stations... It depends on how they decide to zone the area. Gas stations can be zoned out of existence, sort of. I believe that an existing gas station can stay there as long as they want, and the owners can sell it as a gas station too. However, if the city were to decide it didn't want gas stations there, they could zone the area in such a way to exclude gas stations. While any existing gas stations would be grandfathered, as soon as it gets changed to something else, it can never be a gas station again (unless then change the zoning laws yet again).


You are correct. It's called a legal non-conforming use.

nfitz
2009-Apr-30, 14:25
[QUOTE=Eug;266359]I attended one of the Kingston Road EA (http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/kingston_road_ea/pdf/newsletter-03.pdf) info meetings and was a little surprised by the comments by a group of Danforth business owners.[\QUOTE]I'm not surprised. I'm sure a lot of the drop in business in that area is by car, and the proposal is to eliminate the parking on Danforth on both sides of the street, which seems poorly thought out. I'd have thought that a lane of parking in that area would be more beneficial than 2 bike lanes - which don't seem to connect to anything; the bike planes could go along Clonmore/Gerrard/Hollis instead.

Mustapha
2009-Apr-30, 14:42
I heard that the Roxy Cinema (formally The Allenby, Art Moderne, 1939) at Greenwood & Danforth is finally succumbing to the wrecking ball. I had always hoped that the building would survive long enough until the area could support an east end cinema. If what I was told was correct, the front of the building will remain but the rest will go and then be rebuilt into a service station or something.
So many great memories there, it's so sad to see it go.

A few memories, for those who were there in the late '70's/early '80's when the place really rocked.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_bytheboxoffice2.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/bytheboxoffice2.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_RoxyToronto.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/RoxyToronto.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_roxy_auditorium.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/roxy_auditorium.jpg)

Wonderful. Did you take these pics? The lineup people - they are all smiling at you, the photographer.

Take a picture of a group like that nowadays and one is sure to be scowling at you.

Eug
2009-Apr-30, 15:02
I'm not surprised. I'm sure a lot of the drop in business in that area is by car, and the proposal is to eliminate the parking on Danforth on both sides of the street, which seems poorly thought out. I'd have thought that a lane of parking in that area would be more beneficial than 2 bike lanes - which don't seem to connect to anything; the bike planes could go along Clonmore/Gerrard/Hollis instead.
That's a reasonable point. However, I think a better solution is to have more parking lots/buildings. I've never been a huge fan of the street parking situation along the Danforth.

OTOH, the city hasn't increased Green P parking spots fast enough for my tastes either.

What they did in my old condo building (downtown) was an interesting compromise. The developer was forced to make their "visitor" parking available to both visitors and the general public. So, our condo building's visitor parking is actually a Green P parking lot. I don't know how much residential will be built there, if any. However, with higher buildings and consolidation of existing lots, new buildings going up could include public parking.

dt_toronto_geek
2009-Apr-30, 22:38
Wonderful. Did you take these pics? The lineup people - they are all smiling at you, the photographer.

Take a picture of a group like that nowadays and one is sure to be scowling at you.

No. Two of my best friends are the Roxy manager and projectionist who were there in the 70's & 80's. These photos came from the fellow who was the manager who recently scanned his collection of slides into digital.
One more taken from the projection booth after a Rocky Horror screening, late 1970's.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_projectionist6.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/projectionist6.jpg)

Anth
2009-May-01, 11:21
Photos from that era don't come up often enough here. Thanks very much for posting them!

Perhaps you should consider an addition to the 1970s Toronto (http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=7311) thread?

Joe
2009-Jul-15, 16:30
I heard that the Roxy Cinema (formally The Allenby, Art Moderne, 1939) at Greenwood & Danforth is finally succumbing to the wrecking ball. I had always hoped that the building would survive long enough until the area could support an east end cinema. If what I was told was correct, the front of the building will remain but the rest will go and then be rebuilt into a service station or something.
So many great memories there, it's so sad to see it go.

A few memories, for those who were there in the late '70's/early '80's when the place really rocked.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_bytheboxoffice2.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/bytheboxoffice2.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_RoxyToronto.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/RoxyToronto.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_roxy_auditorium.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/roxy_auditorium.jpg)


Yeah... there are apparently plans for a Tim Hortons in the old Roxy/Allenby theatre, too.

I bike home past there every day... so if I see any workers I'll ask. :)

Goldie
2009-Jul-15, 19:38
My family went to movies at the Allenby on the 1940s when they gave away free dishes and books at many showings.
Sad to read of its demise.

dt_toronto_geek
2009-Jul-16, 00:58
My family went to movies at the Allenby on the 1940s when they gave away free dishes and books at many showings.
Sad to read of its demise.

Great photo, I've never seen a pre-Roxy photograph of the cinema as the Allenby.
My mom & her family grew up in this area on Hertle Ave. (Greenwood/Gerrard) until they moved to the 'burbs in the mid '50's and I asked her a few months ago if she remembered the Allenby. She did, but has no memory of going there. She'd go to cinemas closer to home along Gerrard Street such as The Guild, The Classic and on special occasions they'd go to the fancy cinema, The Eastwood (now "India Centre" at 1430 Gerrard E.). The other cinema buildings still exist too, but also serve other purposes.

Skeezix
2009-Jul-16, 09:28
The plans are not to demolish the Roxy/Allenby, but rather to convert the site to a gas station. The former cinema facade is to be restored, and the building will be used for the station's retail component. As someone mentioned above, there may very well be a Tim Hortons counter in there, as is common at a number of stations.

At least that was the plan in 2008 (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2008/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-9416.pdf). Whether the recession sidetracked those plans or not, I do not know. Given that the building enjoys a heritage designation, however, the City would need to bless any new plans for the site.

OttoSchloss
2009-Jul-16, 09:46
I heard that the Roxy Cinema (formally The Allenby, Art Moderne, 1939) at Greenwood & Danforth is finally succumbing to the wrecking ball. I had always hoped that the building would survive long enough until the area could support an east end cinema. If what I was told was correct, the front of the building will remain but the rest will go and then be rebuilt into a service station or something.
So many great memories there, it's so sad to see it go.

A few memories, for those who were there in the late '70's/early '80's when the place really rocked.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/rocky-horror_lineup4.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_bytheboxoffice2.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/bytheboxoffice2.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_RoxyToronto.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/RoxyToronto.jpg) http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/th_roxy_auditorium.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee140/laserboy_TO/roxy_auditorium.jpg)

That's where I used to buy my LSD in the 80s. *sigh*

Eug
2009-Jul-16, 10:47
The plans are not to demolish the Roxy/Allenby, but rather to convert the site to a gas station. The former cinema facade is to be restored, and the building will be used for the station's retail component. As someone mentioned above, there may very well be a Tim Hortons counter in there, as is common at a number of stations.

At least that was the plan in 2008 (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2008/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-9416.pdf). Whether the recession sidetracked those plans or not, I do not know. Given that the building enjoys a heritage designation, however, the City would need to bless any new plans for the site.
That's actually quite an interesting compromise. Where would the gas pumps be then, and how would you get to them?

Skeezix
2009-Jul-16, 13:42
That's actually quite an interesting compromise. Where would the gas pumps be then, and how would you get to them?

If I recall correctly, the pumps are to be located on the vacant lot immediately to the west of the theatre.

Goldie
2009-Jul-16, 13:45
That's actually quite an interesting compromise. Where would the gas pumps be then, and how would you get to them?

As can be seen in my previous post (with the old photo of the Allenby in 1936), there was once a gas station on the corner lot beside the cinema.
I expect that will be the location of any new pump island.

Attached are some photos of other east end cinemas I attended as a child.

adma
2009-Jul-16, 21:41
The plans are not to demolish the Roxy/Allenby, but rather to convert the site to a gas station. The former cinema facade is to be restored, and the building will be used for the station's retail component. As someone mentioned above, there may very well be a Tim Hortons counter in there, as is common at a number of stations.


The fact that only the facade is to be retained still marks it as more "demolished" than not in certain circles, remember.

mjl08
2009-Jul-17, 14:01
Anything to turn this decrepit intersection around.

The abandoned Roxy, with the adjacent abandoned gas station and KFC, a seedy pool hall and bar on the north side, plus a Beer Store, 80's era LCBO and sketchy apartment blocks directly west creates the most unattractive Danforth strip west of Main. Even the boom of young families in and around the side streets seem to have done little to remedy such a disaster.

Goldie
2009-Jul-17, 18:59
The abandoned Roxy, with the adjacent abandoned gas station and KFC,

Here are a couple of my photos of that abandoned KFC just east of the Roxy - taken in 2006.
Does it still look like this?

mjl08
2009-Jul-17, 19:10
I walked by last month and that is largely what it looked like.

slowtyper
2009-Jul-21, 12:04
Anyone know what is going on with the big house that stopped being built on the east side of coxwell, north of danforth. I read some blog last year that said they did not have a proper permit to build that house because it was too large for the lot, but it hasn't been touched since then. A couple lots south of that there is an empty dug out lot thats been there for a while also...anyone know what the deal with that one is?

northstar
2009-Jul-21, 19:36
There's also a huge empty pit on the southside of Danforth, just west of Woodbine.
I'm not sure what was/is being planned for that site?

I'm curious if a developer had planned something, but has since pulled back as the economy has tightened.

mjl08
2009-Jul-21, 22:04
Anyone know what is going on with the big house that stopped being built on the east side of coxwell, north of danforth. I read some blog last year that said they did not have a proper permit to build that house because it was too large for the lot, but it hasn't been touched since then. A couple lots south of that there is an empty dug out lot thats been there for a while also...anyone know what the deal with that one is?

I know the two properties you are talking about. Interestingly enough, a few doors south of that empty lot was a busted prostitution (ahem escort) ring that the Star ran a big serial on a few years ago. Last time I checked the abandoned security cameras and barricaded windows remain.


There's also a huge empty pit on the southside of Danforth, just west of Woodbine.
I'm not sure what was/is being planned for that site?

I'm curious if a developer had planned something, but has since pulled back as the economy has tightened.

That was an old Home Building Centre that burned down back in 2003 I believe... the landlord was charged with arson. I've seen little activity on the site ever since.

slowtyper
2009-Jul-22, 16:18
I know the two properties you are talking about. Interestingly enough, a few doors south of that empty lot was a busted prostitution (ahem escort) ring that the Star ran a big serial on a few years ago. Last time I checked the abandoned security cameras and barricaded windows remain.


I never heard about that. I will take a stroll soon and try to spot it. I wonder what makes police bust one house here and leave the gazillions of highrise apartment and condo brothels running.

adma
2009-Jul-22, 21:25
I never heard about that. I will take a stroll soon and try to spot it. I wonder what makes police bust one house here and leave the gazillions of highrise apartment and condo brothels running.

Maybe because it's in a whiteish middle-classish inner-cityish zone. (And how long ago was this Star feature? I think it was ages before the high-rise brothel phenomenon made the headlines...)

junctionman
2009-Jul-23, 23:30
That was an old Home Building Centre that burned down back in 2003 I believe... the landlord was charged with arson. I've seen little activity on the site ever since.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/224259
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=0a10b0e2-bd0d-4355-b091-83e2930a8a1f

Eug
2009-Aug-05, 10:03
"Police are calling it suspicious."

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2009/08/05/toronto-fire-w090805-ts.jpg

Fire closes Danforth near Woodbine (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/08/05/danforth-fire.html)

A fire near Danforth and Woodbine avenues closed a large section of the east end during the Wednesday morning rush hour.

The fire at Best Choice Auto Sales on Danforth Avenue started at about 1:30 a.m., forcing police and firefighters to evacuate about 100 nearby residents. A stretch of Danforth Avenue was closed.

mjl08
2009-Aug-05, 14:41
According to a poster on the CBC board who lives down the street, this is the second time there has been a fire on that site in the past few months, hence the "suspicion."

adma
2009-Aug-05, 22:32
Overall, that's a weird little nucleus. That single-storey shop on the right is the one with the billboards on the HUGE scaffold that evidently once supported a humongous neon sign of some sort, right? (And behind is some ancient concrete-frame affair that shows signs of once being a dairy or something...)

mjl08
2009-Aug-06, 16:51
Overall, that's a weird little nucleus. That single-storey shop on the right is the one with the billboards on the HUGE scaffold that evidently once supported a humongous neon sign of some sort, right? (And behind is some ancient concrete-frame affair that shows signs of once being a dairy or something...)

That rickety building on the right is an auctioneer/antique dealer whose name skips me (though you can see the "MO-" before the cutt off). Whatever junk he places on the sidewalk during the day I'm sure would make good kindling.

northstar
2009-Oct-31, 00:23
I was chatting with someone on Danforth East a few days ago.

He mentioned a 4 storey medical building was being planned for the corner of Danforth and Aldridge. This seemed news to me, as I haven't heard anything about it, nor is there any sort of signage to indicate such.

Same person also mentioned that someone is petitioning City Hall to change zoning on Danforth to allow for an 11 storey condo on the south side of Danforth just west of Woodbine. I can only assume that he was talking about the site of the former hardware store that burnt down (arson). Same person also mentioned current zoning on Danforth only allows for a maximum 4 storey building - which is somewhat counterintuitive along a major arterial road and subway corridor.

Asked this same person how he could explain 4 bland brown brick buildings at the southeast corner of Main & Danforth (i.e. in regards to the maximum height allowance of 4 storeys). He couldn't explain, but thought because the architecture was so bad at Main & Danforth, that it caused a grassroots group to lobby for no more similar highrises along the Danforth. Talk about one bad apple spoiling the barrel. :mad::rolleyes:

As mentioned, all this came from talk on the street... so I'm not sure if there's any truth to these comments. I couldn't find anything online myself - so wanted to ask in this forum whether anyone had heard anything similar with respect to any of what I've mentioned.

Pro-catastrophe
2009-Nov-03, 17:29
I read something about a new medical building in the area in the local paper (the Mirror I think).

There is a rezoning and site plan applciation for the property you mentioned. See below for the informaiton. I got it from the Development Application Status webpage.

Rezoning application to permti the development of the vacant parcel of lands municpally known as 2055 and 2057 Danforth Ave for a new mixed use building 12 storeis in height containing 141 residential dwelling units and ground floor related commercial units (11528m2 of GFA). The project includes a parking area located below grade.

Pro-catastrophe
2009-Nov-03, 17:30
Here is the link to the planning application status page in case your interested in looking up other proposals.

http://app.toronto.ca/DevelopmentApplications/searchPlanningAppSetup.do?action=init

nfitz
2009-Nov-03, 21:41
Asked this same person how he could explain 4 bland brown brick buildings at the southeast corner of Main & Danforth (i.e. in regards to the maximum height allowance of 4 storeys). He couldn't explain, but thought because the architecture was so bad at Main & Danforth, that it caused a grassroots group to lobby for no more similar highrises along the Danforth.I've heard there was a huge debate/battle about those high-rises in the day ... but I don't know details; before I lived in Toronto.

Four stories does seem a pretty low limit for a major artery along a subway line. Surely we should be seeing densification in this area, surely.

And as for Aldridge ... can't look worse than the Midas. Hopefully the new development has some retail!

Skeezix
2009-Nov-04, 12:25
I've heard there was a huge debate/battle about those high-rises in the day ... but I don't know details; before I lived in Toronto.

Four stories does seem a pretty low limit for a major artery along a subway line. Surely we should be seeing densification in this area, surely.

And as for Aldridge ... can't look worse than the Midas. Hopefully the new development has some retail!

Sometime ago (the early 1980s, I believe - anyone know for sure?), there was a huge fight over the former car dealership lands at Danforth and Jackman. I think Cadillac Fairview (when they still did residential) wanted to construct a fairly tall apartment slab. There was a lot of neighbourhood resistance, and the site is now occupied by the two-storey Carrot Common.

I have heard it said that the fight over that site created a subsequent chill towards potential high-rise development along that portion of the Danforth (certainly along the Riverdale/Playter Estates/Chester portion), and those attitudes may have extended all the way to the East Danforth as well.

Eug
2009-Nov-14, 09:06
Danforth's decline: Drugs, prostitutes now in the open (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/725794--danforth-s-decline-drugs-prostitutes-now-in-the-open?bn=1)

The kitsch of Greektown dries up at Jones Ave. Pass Donlands. An auto shop. A fried chicken joint. A funeral parlour. Coxwell is the dividing line.

By Main Street, bars on shop windows, payday loan stores and dingy pubs are the norm. Drifters who have been turned away from the local shelter sleep in long alleyways. Dealers work out of side-street crack houses. Prostitutes walk the Victoria Park strip.

It's only getting worse. In the last three years, the drugs and street workers moved into the open. Deals that used to go down in the back of grimy Internet cafes now happen in broad daylight. Prostitutes moved out of rub-and-tugs and onto street corners.

nfitz
2009-Nov-14, 12:12
Intrestingly, the article blames the subway taking pedestrians off the surface ... and also says that people think it's getting better not worse ... article doesn't seem to know if it's coming or going.

kettal
2009-Nov-14, 14:32
and it's not even written by Christopher Hume.

mjl08
2009-Nov-14, 17:25
Only when the young "progressive" families and their kin arrive to the East Lynne-Monarch Park communities does a drug and prostitution problem seem apparent. I mean, gosh, the thought of a newly gentrifying neighbourhood with small traces of drugs and solicitation still apparent. Who would have thunk it?

As far as the entire city is concerned, East Danforth is ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of safety among major corridors. There is always heavy pedestrian and car traffic, even at the break of dawn when the yoga moms are walking their labradoodles. Sure there are a few sketchy locals, the Coffee Time at Coxwell comes to mind, but what strip doesn't have a few seedy joints? Think about some of the dives along Kingston Rd, just steps away from Beach mansions. Or the local haunts along Queen East, a stone's throw from Leslieville HGTV reno'd homes.

These newbies who come into the neighbourhood thinking that a few fair trade coffee shops and farmer markets will turn the neighbourhood around overnight are in Pleasantville. By living in a dense urban environment, there is the expectation that you will occasionally interact with individuals who will test you comfort level. If you feel threatened, then please move to some conformist pseudo-urbane petri dish like Cornell.

nfitz
2009-Nov-14, 20:33
Quite frankly, living around the area, the sketchiest thing I've ever seen were some teenagers smoking pot hidden behind a school ...

... which I'm sure happens everywhere ...

Eug
2009-Nov-14, 22:20
While I'm in that area not infrequently and generally feel safe, I will admit it feels more sketchy than I prefer at times.

Let's just say it's at the early end of gentification, and IMHO more seedy-feeling in areas than Queen West (of Spadina) was in the 90s.

Skeezix
2009-Nov-16, 11:13
Empty Danforth plot undergoes redevelopment plans (http://spacing.ca/wire/2009/11/12/empty-danforth-plot-undergoes-redevelopment-plans/#more-7732)

SPACING TORONTO

November 12th, 2009

Nicole Bruun-Meyer

I recently attended a community meeting regarding the redevelopment proposal for 2055-2057 Danforth Avenue, at the intersection of Danforth and Woodbine. This site, empty since 2001, is slated for a 12-storey condominium with retail space at the ground level. The reason for the community meeting, held by Councillor Sandra Bussin, was because of a rezoning application for the site, which would allow the developer the extra building height.

Prish Jain, of TACT Design, presented the concept for the new building, showing its footprint on the overall site, with its affect on sun and privacy for the local residents. This was followed up with remarks by Leontine Major, Senior Planner, City of Toronto Planning Department and then a question and answer period. The gathering, which attracted about 50 attendees, was a chance for the local residents to raise concerns on specifically the height of the proposed building. The current bylaw allows for five-storeys, while Toronto’s Official Plan suggests a density of nine-storeys for this area.

The site is quite unique, with no real precedent for its development. It fronts onto Danforth Avenue, while also having access from Woodbine Avenue. The back part of the plot is directly adjacent to residential backyards, providing a high impact on the direct community. It also covers two different planning designations, the front, along Danforth, is considered Mixed Use Area, while the rear is under Neighbourhoods. These two designations have different planning criteria, height restrictions, density allowances and objectives. This creates its own challenges for the site and the surrounding areas. Within the ‘mixed use’ portion of the site, the height limit allowed is 14 and 12 metres, whereas the ‘neighbourhood’ areas have a limit of 10 metres. In Section 4.2 of the Official Plan, it distinguishes between Apartment Neighbourhoods and low-rise Neighbourhoods, since, for the former, “a greater scale of buildings is permitted and different scale-related criteria are needed to guide development.” The predominent height in this area of the Danforth is three to four storeys high, so whether this proposal is the City’s suggested 9-storeys or the designed 12-storeys, it will be the tallest structure in the vicinity.

The site also falls into the Avenues category of the Official Plan, which according to Section 2.2.3, states Avenues are “important corridors along major streets where reurbanization is anticipated and encouraged to create new housing and job opportunities, while improving the pedestrian environment, the look of the street, shopping opportunities and transit service for community residents.”

The predominant concern of the community was the height issue, but they were also concerned with losing the character of their neighbourhood, as one attendee said, “ruining the uniqueness of this area,” while others are worried about the big box commercial retailers pushing the local business owners out. However, as a local business owner pointed out, “from the commercial side, if we do not have more people, we won’t survive.” From the residents to the back of the site, they are obviously concerned about over-looking and privacy.

The proposed building steps back from Danforth, starting at 4-storeys to 9-storeys, 12-storeys and back down to 4-storeys. The Architects have also pushed the bulk of the building into the mixed-use zone, keeping the underground parking entrance and drop-off point in the neighbourhood zone, using the access from Woodbine Avenue. It has incorporated the garbage and recycling bins within the building to keep them out of view of the residential neighbours.

I will be writing about the future of this development and the implementation of city-wide planning guidelines within smaller communities. There is a concern about losing our ‘neighbourhoods’ and their uniqueness, however Toronto is a growing and changing city, which presents its own challenges to intensification and reurbanization.

Skeezix
2009-Nov-16, 11:16
Just noticed that there is a thread (http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=9964) for the 12-storey condominium proposal at 2055-2057 Danforth Avenue.

northstar
2010-Feb-08, 20:49
There was a DECA meeting a few days ago, with discussion and input around this new proposal at Woodbine & Danforth.
A summary of the meeting, and some blog comments can be found at the link below.

Big Hole Summary (http://decadiaries.wordpress.com/2010/02/04/big-hole-summary/)

Basically, comments are split.
Those in favour mention the increase in pedestrian traffic which will support local retailers.
Those opposed mention communities like Greektown, Bloor West - which seem to have vibrancy without taller buildings.

Personally I'm in favour of this proposal, provided they can design an attractive building - perhaps similar in design to the Fallingbrook Lofts which are mentioned in this thread... see link (http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?6840-Birch-Cliff-%28Kingston-Warden%29/page2)

Eug
2010-Feb-08, 21:40
The Fallingbrook Lofts building at Kingston and Fallingbrook is quite nice, and the first floor is now populated by higher end shops.

http://www.torontolofts.ca/images/fallingbrook_lofts_lrg.jpg

However, it should be noted that it is... well... on the corner of Fallingbrook, which arguably is the nicest neighbourhood of The Beach (although it technically is in Scarborough), with multimillion dollar homes near the water. In other words the immediate neighbourhood is populated by people with money to spend, and more so than most of East Danforth.

I think it can be successful, but one should be careful to use Fallingbrook Lofts as a example, since the demographics are different. It's a fairly short building too. I think only 6 stories.

northstar
2010-Feb-11, 22:44
Hi Eug
Thanks for posting a picture of the Fallingbrook Lofts.
I agree that Fallingbrook Lofts will not likely be replicated near the corner of Woodbine and Danforth.
Also, I know what you're trying to say about building in an area where people have less money to spend.
Having said that, I nevertheless hope that architects in this city can strive to design attractive buildings at somewhat affordable prices. I like a lot of what Streetcar Developments has produced - including a few condos in East Toronto (on Kingston Road).

Sometimes I think people fear taller buildings because there has been so much crap produced in Toronto over the past 30 years or so. I believe that a 12 storey building at Woodbine and Danforth, while comparatively taller than neighbouring buildings, is nevertheless well-suited for a site this close to the subway station. It will be interesting to see what develops.

danforthvillageblog
2010-Mar-26, 18:01
I think some of you are being pretty harsh on this area (Main & Danforth). There is a lot of diversity in the area which I think is a good thing. There are both working class and middle class people in the neighbourhood. But of course there's a lot of room for improvement. I have lived in the area for the last 12 years and have seen the ups and downs. There are plenty of families and three schools within blocks of each other. I also saw a neighbour's house sell for over half a million dollars and have seen my own home more then double in value. This neighbourhood is still affordable and will continue to go up in value. We are 15-20 minutes from the downtown core and we are on the subway line! I think part of the problem is the bars along the north side of the Danforth. How they continue to operate, I have no idea. But they have to go. The shops along the Danforth are starting to improve slowly and more families are moving into the neighbourhood. I was at a town hall meeting about a year ago when the city wanted to put a health centre in the old catholic school on Balfour Ave. I had never been to one before and I saw a community that wanted change and was sick of taking abuse from the city. I would not have wanted to be Janet Davis that night as she could not get a word in edge wise. I have started a blog hoping to bring everyone together, check it out. Remember its a community that can help any area change when needed.

http://danforthvillageblog.wordpress.com

Eug
2010-Mar-28, 21:12
What is the current (and projected future) zoning around there, and how deep are most of the lots? What is required in terms of setbacks? Shallow lots would suggest the zoning wouldn't usually allow taller buildings. Any taller buildings on comparatively shallow lots would only come about with specific applications for zoning variations, on a per lot basis.

mjl08
2010-May-26, 11:09
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/814234--fiorito-glory-is-fleeting-for-the-sino-tex-mex-halal-taco

Fiorito: Glory is fleeting for the Sino-Tex-Mex halal taco
TORONTO STAR
May 26, 2010
Joe Fiorito


The story that will be told is not the story that could be told, which is to say that I eat my share of quesadillas and I am familiar with the concept of halal, but I don’t speak a word of Cantonese.

I had heard whispers of a hole-in-the-wall taquerilla on Danforth, a door or two west of Donlands, in the shadow of that newish minaret, where the guy behind the counter is Chinese.

I was naturally curious. This is a pretty multicultural town, but who knew that Muslims ate burritos, and who would have imagined that a Chinese guy understood the first thing about a taco?

Amend that thought: peking duck, wrapped in little flour pancakes, eaten with scallions and hoisin sauce, is not so far a cry. But really: a Chinese guy making Mexican food for Muslims?

And so I went to Taco King a week or so ago. The guy behind the counter seemed a nice fellow. I still don’t know his name. I asked, but was not able to make myself understood.

The counter man — he is also the grill man, the chili man and the tortilla-press man — speaks just enough English to ask how you want your taco: “Hard shell? Soft shell?” He can also discern your preferences for pico de gallo by saying, with a hint of uptalk, “Hot sauce with that?”

Customers came and went. During a lull in the lunch-hour action, using my best international sign language, supplemented with baby talk as embarrassing for him as it was for me, I asked if I could talk to the owner. The taco man frowned.

He said, “Taco?” I said, “Talk to. The owner.” He said, “Hard shell – soft shell?” I said, “No. Talk to. The owner.” He said, “Taco?”

I ordered one with chili, one with chicken, and a tortilla al carbon with guacamole. I have eaten flour tortillas filled with grilled skirt steak in San Antonio, and I do not ask for greatness here. Here, it’s great enough to know that the taco man was Chinese, and somewhere in the neighbourhood the muezzin calls.

In the interests of consumerism, I can tell you that the chili I consumed needs work, and I’d have the chicken taco again, but the pico de gallo — beak of the rooster to you — needs more pico for this gallo.

Kids streamed in, noonish, from the nearby high school. They came, they said, because the meat was halal, and they liked Mexican.

They did not add that the food is fast and filling and frugal. Nor did they — African, Indian, Asian-Canadians — think the multicultural mix noteworthy.

The taco man and I played charades again when I had finished lunch. There was some fast pointing at wristwatches, and a hasty call on a cellphone, and a man — the owner, I think — came to understand that I wanted to talk to him about the glories of the Sino-Tex-Mex halal taco shop. He said he’d meet me in a week, at 11 a.m.

A week later, at 10:59, I returned. I arrived at the same time as the counterman. We shook hands. He unlocked the door, banged pots and pans, flipped switches and made ready for the day. No words passed between us until I pointed to my cellphone and my watch.

The taco man stopped what he was doing and got a calendar. He pointed to June 15. He said “No more taco. Chinese food.”

I am bereft and in the dark. I still don’t know the why, the how, the who; here so briefly, the Taco King will soon be something else.

You better hurry.

Joe Fiorito usually appears Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Email :jfiorito@thestar.ca

Goldie
2010-Dec-17, 01:56
This thread could use more photographs.
Here's a few:
- Allenby (Roxy) becomes Tim's and joins Esso
- Joy Oil Station - who remembers that?
- Donlands, once narrow

Eug
2010-Dec-17, 02:33
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/814234--fiorito-glory-is-fleeting-for-the-sino-tex-mex-halal-taco
Heh. That's great. I'll have to check that place out.

dt_toronto_geek
2011-Oct-04, 01:13
The Allenby Theatre's (aka Roxy Theatre) historical plaque unveiling on Sunday Oct. 2nd at 11am, Danforth & Greenwood.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy1.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy1.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_roxy2.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/roxy2.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_roxy2.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/roxy2.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy4.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy4.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy5-1.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy5-1.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy6.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy6.jpg)

Photos by Jon Lidolt

Mustapha
2011-Oct-05, 21:41
The Allenby Theatre's (aka Roxy Theatre) historical plaque unveiling on Sunday Oct. 2nd at 11am, Danforth & Greenwood.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy1.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy1.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_roxy2.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/roxy2.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_roxy2.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/roxy2.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy4.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy4.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy5-1.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy5-1.jpg) http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/th_Roxy6.jpg (http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/scullydog259/Roxy6.jpg)

Photos by Jon Lidolt

Very neat, thanks!

mjl08
2011-Nov-24, 19:27
Red Rocket Coffee moving from Leslieville to East Dan, near Coxwell. This could be great news for the stretch.

http://www.torontolife.com/daily/daily-dish/deathwatch/2011/11/18/red-rocket-leslieville-closes/

nfitz
2011-Nov-24, 19:39
Red Rocket Coffee moving from Leslieville to East Dan, near Coxwell. This could be great news for the stretch.Just west of Monarch Park? Seems to be a lot of restaurants and similar establishments, including other cafés in the area. Yet I can't think of much else on Coxwell in the Vancouver area. Very unfortunate I think. The customers won't come along. Very unfortunate I think ... that part of East Danforth seems to be one of the high points east of Pape already.

mrxrated
2012-Apr-27, 20:12
waz up man-this place is ded! last post nov 24 2011? hey hows dis place keep floatijn? unreal!

Urban Shocker
2012-Apr-28, 05:45
Many a true word spoken in jest.

Riverdale Rink Rat
2012-Apr-29, 21:15
Just west of Monarch Park? Seems to be a lot of restaurants and similar establishments, including other cafés in the area. Yet I can't think of much else on Coxwell in the Vancouver area. Very unfortunate I think. The customers won't come along. Very unfortunate I think ... that part of East Danforth seems to be one of the high points east of Pape already.

Red Rocket has re-branded the 'plan B' coffee shop at Dundas and Logan. Is that instead of Danforth, or in addition to?

nfitz
2012-Apr-30, 15:20
Red Rocket has re-branded the 'plan B' coffee shop at Dundas and Logan. Is that instead of Danforth, or in addition to?Rebranded?

I did walk past the new location the other day on Danforth. So it's operational, and very close to Greenwood subway (a lot closer to Greenwood subway than the mis-named Greenwood subway is to Greenwood).

Hmm, the website lists a third location (http://www.redrocketcoffee.com/), at Wellesley east of Jarvis.

Problem with cafes, is they are always going to be very local, so even it it only moves 10 blocks or so, I'd think much of the clientele would be lost - let alone the 20 blocks or so it is from the old Greenwood/Queen location to Dundas/Logan or Greenwood/Danforth. I'm quite happy to drive, or take TTC to get to El Sol right near the Danforth location ... but I can't imagine doing that for a cafe ... unless they had some game-changing entrée.

Riverdale Rink Rat
2012-Apr-30, 16:47
Rebranded?

Quite literally. They've taken an existing café/flower shop, not changed a whit as far as I can tell, but slapped a big Red Rocket sign on the outside wall. They must have taken over the coffee roasting or leased it from the owners or some such.

cdr108
2012-May-01, 20:23
Hmm, the website lists a third location (http://www.redrocketcoffee.com/), at Wellesley east of Jarvis.
.

i believe that's the one in the podium of Verve on Wellesley b/t Jarvis and Sherbourne.

HamiltonTransitHistory
2012-Aug-26, 01:05
So as they're renovating the former Zellers at Shoppers World into a Target, they've been removing the old siding, and exposing the original brickwork on the west side. judging by its condition, it's been around for a while

Northern Light
2012-Aug-26, 09:34
From the Wikipedia entry about the mall.

In 1921 the site was still a largely rural area on the fringe of the city of Toronto, but that year the Danforth streetcar was extended to a new loop at Luttrell Avenue, just west of Victoria Park. This led to rapid development of the area. Most notably a Ford Motor Company assembly plant was built covering the large site at the southwest corner of Danforth and Victoria Park. The old factory building continues to exist as the main building of the mall.

HamiltonTransitHistory
2012-Sep-30, 19:31
So as they're renovating the former Zellers at Shoppers World into a Target, they've been removing the old siding, and exposing the original brickwork on the west side. judging by its condition, it's been around for a while

It's been covered back up, but this is what was under the siding on the northwest corner

9391

junctionist
2012-Oct-31, 01:46
Has it been confirmed to have been the work of Albert Kahn? He was one of the most important American architects of his time, and he didn't have many Canadian projects. The only ones I know of are the Kaufman Footwear Building in Kitchener and Windsor's significant collection which includes the aristocratic Willistead Manor. The Ford plant should be restored even for the purposes of retail and not obscured, regardless.

adma
2012-Nov-03, 19:16
The Ford plant should be restored even for the purposes of retail and not obscured, regardless.

Or at least, not redmarked for future "inevitable" big-box (or condo, for that matter) redevelopment.

In fact, I've commented in the past that should the existing mall function ever expire, to convert the old auto plant into a Wychwood-esque marketplace could be a terrific idea...

(Oh, re Kahn: I believe I have seen his name connected here. Perhaps also w/stuff in Oshawa or the Oakville plant--though I know that some Oshawa stuff's been demolished in recent decades...)

carebear
2012-Nov-24, 22:18
excuse me but "white trash" not all white ppl are bad or poor or get into trouble u cant judge just cuz of a persons color... or the way they look, its like me being judging black ppl or imigrants... an thats being racest i wasnt brought up that way obviously u were... being racest is one of the main reasons there is so much fighting now a days, what ever happened to love thy neighbor or help a friend in need... or if u see a person u dont know in trouble an their right in front of u are u gonna just walk on by an ignore them just cuz there different... ur the one that wont go far in life if u think like that all the time an one day ull be the outsider, cuz no one will want to help u or be a freind cuz ur racest...

mjl08
2012-Nov-25, 15:50
http://www.westminsterchapel.ca/contact/directions

Westminster Baptist Church, a large church at 14 Dewhurst, just north of the Danforth at Jones has merged with a church in High Park. In effect leaving a large church space empty.

Seems like a ripe spot for a loft development.

http://imgur.com/EK3wG

adma
2012-Nov-25, 20:51
excuse me but "white trash" not all white ppl are bad or poor or get into trouble u cant judge just cuz of a persons color... or the way they look, its like me being judging black ppl or imigrants... an thats being racest i wasnt brought up that way obviously u were... being racest is one of the main reasons there is so much fighting now a days, what ever happened to love thy neighbor or help a friend in need... or if u see a person u dont know in trouble an their right in front of u are u gonna just walk on by an ignore them just cuz there different... ur the one that wont go far in life if u think like that all the time an one day ull be the outsider, cuz no one will want to help u or be a freind cuz ur racest...

"Helping an outsider" could mean informing you how to spell "racist", you know.

cdr108
2012-Nov-26, 15:54
"Helping an outsider" could mean informing you how to spell "racist", you know.

u needed reply to carebear as he/she/it seems like a bot

carebear
2012-Nov-27, 13:06
"Helping an outsider" could mean informing you how to spell "racist", you know.

i was in a hurry an this is not a spelling contest, so now ur gonna judge my spelling... wow u got issues...

Burton Realty
2013-May-20, 23:45
I love everything about this area except for the parking situation. Rules vary from one part of a street to the next, and then change again. Tickets for visitors are likely. This makes visiting somewhat difficult.

Riverdale Rink Rat
2013-May-21, 05:32
I love everything about this area except for the parking situation. Rules vary from one part of a street to the next, and then change again. Tickets for visitors are likely. This makes visiting somewhat difficult.

'Cause those little sign thingies they use to tell you what the rules are challenge your visitors?

Burton Realty
2013-May-21, 09:44
Well, when its 1 hour in one spot, 10m away its 12 hours, and then past the corner its 1 hour again, with parking police who mark tires and give tickets within 45 seconds of a violation, yes it is a challenge for visitors. And dont forget about switching parking to the other side of the street every 2 weeks, or the friendly residents who call the city because they dont like people parking in front of their house. AND, be sure not to park within 20 miles of a fire hydrant. Safety first.

But thank the lord for the sign thingies. Oh yeah everyone will be ok thanks to the sign thingies.

junior43
2013-May-30, 09:33
Or at least, not redmarked for future "inevitable" big-box (or condo, for that matter) redevelopment.

In fact, I've commented in the past that should the existing mall function ever expire, to convert the old auto plant into a Wychwood-esque marketplace could be a terrific idea...

All of this does sound appealing, but given it's proximity to Vic Park station - and the size of the lot, I can easily see this turning into a condo complex. Best hope to save the original building may be a facadectomied condo complex.

Can always hope for the best of both worlds with the size of the lot. Condos on the eastern half and restore this building to a marketish type bldg. as you suggest.

nfitz
2013-May-30, 11:59
All of this does sound appealing, but given it's proximity to Vic Park station - and the size of the lot, I can easily see this turning into a condo complex. Best hope to save the original building may be a facadectomied condo complex.

Can always hope for the best of both worlds with the size of the lot. Condos on the eastern half and restore this building to a marketish type bldg. as you suggest.Where is this old Ford plant? I'm scratching my head thinking of what property could possibly be big enough, other than Shoppers World.

junior43
2013-May-30, 12:04
Where is this old Ford plant? I'm scratching my head thinking of what property could possibly be big enough, other than Shoppers World.

That's the one.....a page back they had a shot of the exposed brick from when they were turning it into a target. I was amazed to learn about it's original history myself (being a Ford plant.)

nfitz
2013-May-30, 12:10
That's the one.....a page back they had a shot of the exposed brick from when they were turning it into a target. I was amazed to learn about it's original history myself (being a Ford plant.)Ah, I didn't read back far enough. Wow, such a small property for a car plant, even compared to what they were doing in the 1930s! It's certainly calling out for some kind of development.

Though not just because of it's proximety to Victoria Park Station. The northeast corner is a 400 metre walk to the subway ... but the southwest corner is less than 300 metres to the end of the Danforth GO platform, if there was a walkway there somewhere.

junior43
2013-May-30, 12:22
Ah, I didn't read back far enough. Wow, such a small property for a car plant, even compared to what they were doing in the 1930s! It's certainly calling out for some kind of development.

Though not just because of it's proximety to Victoria Park Station. The northeast corner is a 400 metre walk to the subway ... but the southwest corner is less than 300 metres to the end of the Danforth GO platform, if there was a walkway there somewhere.

ya was thinking about GO myself. Tedious walk currently, there is a side street just south of the Go tracks running parallel to them, but you still have to walk south on Vic Park to get to it. Walking along Danforth just as simple. Far quicker commute to Union though taking the GO, even including the walk - I would guess.

Although the developer could throw in a bridge over the tracks, and that also connects it to the Loblaw's south of the tracks as well.

tdotdaver
2013-Jun-03, 16:26
I take the GO every day to get to my office near Union. It's a wonderful alternative to the 45 minutes on the Subway. Even with the walk from my house it's a total of a 25 minute commute each way. When my wife picks me up, it's down to 15 minutes total! I think the Target will do a lot to turnover the stagnant retail in the area (small, under-kept shops) and the corner of Main/Danforth is seeing some newer retail come in (a great modern furniture store, the new Grillies). I'm not sure the area will see much in the way of higher-density development due to the existing high-rises but I do hope that as the houses turn over that we'll start to see some more vibrancy (ie: better walkability along Danforth) and less used-car lots.

junctionman
2013-Jun-05, 00:54
I'm not sure the area will see much in the way of higher-density development due to the existing high-rises but I do hope that as the houses turn over that we'll start to see some more vibrancy (ie: better walkability along Danforth) and less used-car lots.

There's a good chance the existing high rises have already created a high-density precedent for Main and Danforth. An example is the southeast corner of Main and Danforth (2575 Danforth). It was rezoned about 10 years ago to allow 2 new buildings @ 15 storeys and 32 storeys. Doesn't seem like it's going to happen any time soon, but it's approved.

The current funeral home on the northeast corner of Main and Danforth will be sitting on a valuable piece of land over time. Could be the site of a really nice residential midrise or tower one day. Or a really ugly one...

SixPoints
2013-Aug-22, 21:29
I used to live at VP/Danforth. I always thought there was so much potential to redevelop the other three corners (the other three excluding Shopper's World). I assume with so many little shops, it may be difficult to accumulate the land.

g_man
2013-Sep-18, 11:40
Does anybody know about the proposed development on the site of the former Dentonia Park Church on Dawes just north of Danforth?

I drove by there the other day, looks like 9 new detached homes? I was able to find this online from back in May, but not much else:
http://www.councillordavis.com/news/new-houses-at-dawes-and-dentonia

Goldie
2013-Sep-27, 19:04
Not many of the old homes on Danforth are still visible. This one remains behind a storefront near Dawes Road (2726 Danforth).

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/oldhouseat2726Danforth_zpsd6cdf883.jpg

Goldie
2013-Sep-27, 19:20
Shoppers' World at Danforth & Victoria Park was recently renovated for the arrival of the TARGET chain of stores. The unmistakable [industrial] roof lines of the original building are evident here. The building was begun in 1921 as a Ford auto assembly plant and remained active until 1953 when Ford moved to Oakville.

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/TARGETShoppersWorld-formerFordplant_zpscdabb363.jpg[/URL]

tdotdaver
2013-Sep-30, 12:27
Love the pics of our 'hood Goldie - keep it up!

Goldie
2013-Oct-04, 19:39
FROM VIC/PARK TO DAWES

Press to walk

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/presstowalk_zpsc9d3bfa4.jpg

Fitness

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/fitness_zps5e80c11f.jpg

Psychic

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/psychic_zps559f5fc6.jpg

Nails

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/nailsonDanforth_zps6ac9511d.jpg

Colourfull

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/BSKings_zps004d0b80.jpg

A penny in change

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/9999_zpsac5f4c18.jpg

Reflections

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/shop-windowphotographer_zpsfa69c8d2.jpg

Car wash

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/coincarwash-DawesRd_zps9f0dcdb3.jpg

Lumber

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/gdunbar/lumber-DawesRd_zps788c9db3.jpg

mjl08
2013-Dec-10, 16:33
New coffee shop opening directly next door to Donlands Station, just two doors north of Danforth. Didn't catch the name on the "Coming Soon" sign but it is an interesting choice of location considering the building's former tenant, a dual video game-used cell phone shop.

GKW
2014-Mar-25, 18:22
big feature article about the hot real estate on Rhodes Ave in the Danforth & Coxwell area
http://projects.thestar.com/race-to-rhodes-ave/

ehlow
2014-Mar-25, 18:55
big feature article about the hot real estate on Rhodes Ave in the Danforth & Coxwell area
http://projects.thestar.com/race-to-rhodes-ave/

It makes sense that this place is in demand, it has nice, relatively affordable houses with character on tree-lined streets near the transit line.

CanadaBrit
2014-Mar-27, 11:06
It makes sense that this place is in demand, it has nice, relatively affordable houses with character on tree-lined streets near the transit line.

They didn't mention that Rhodes is a termite hot spot. You need to get a termite inspection as well as a home inspection before laying out hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just sayin'.

GKW
2014-Mar-31, 10:02
big feature in The Grid about the gentrifying neighbourhood of East Danforth
http://www.thegridto.com/life/real-estate/gentrify-me/

Skeezix
2014-Mar-31, 14:54
The Grid article is quite interesting. Not so much about yet another gentrifying neighbourhood, but rather how a community reacted towards a retail strip that stubbornly refused to gentrify, and how they are encouraging gentrification in a manner that is intended to help, rather than evict, existing businesses, and that encourages new independent businesses. An interesting read, and time will tell as to how successful this will be.

Ex-Montreal Girl
2014-Apr-07, 16:00
The Grid article is quite interesting. Not so much about yet another gentrifying neighbourhood, but rather how a community reacted towards a retail strip that stubbornly refused to gentrify, and how they are encouraging gentrification in a manner that is intended to help, rather than evict, existing businesses, and that encourages new independent businesses. An interesting read, and time will tell as to how successful this will be.

Chris Hume has written some incoherent columns before but this has to be the most illogical. (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/04/07/the_danforth_a_success_despite_itself_hume.html)


On the other hand, the subway that runs along Danforth should have brought growth — perhaps gentrification — with it. Isn’t that one of the reasons we suddenly all want underground transit so badly?

Interestingly, the subway seems to have had almost no impact on the Danforth; the building stock remains largely what it was decades ago. Usage has changed, but development has not happened except in the form of the odd infill project.

and then:


One doesn’t dare suggest it, but perhaps Danforth would be better served by a streetcar — make that LRT. It might help knit the street into a more of a coherent entity and urban feature. A streetcar might also help bring down the invisible yet rigid boundaries that separate the various stretches of Danforth. Clearly, the subway hasn’t managed that.

So which is it? Streetcar/LRT or subway?

The subway all but destroyed the Danforth, as any old timer will tell you. Before, people would get off at streetcar stops on their way home, and pick up their groceries and stuff. The Danforth is only just beginning to recover from that devastation.

Perhaps development per se hasn't happened but real estate values have shot through the roof, and the resulting gentrification has started to bring in new and interesting retailers and restaurants.

Would I prefer to see more 8-10 story buildings/condos avenue-style, with retail at grade? Absolutely. But I think that getting a bunch of disparate store/building owners to give up their properties so that a developer could build something substantial would be a logistical nightmare.

Looks like Hume phoned it in.

ehlow
2014-Apr-07, 16:33
Edit: I posted a longer rant elsewhere which I'll add here:

Sorry but I hate this article. The subway's primary purpose is to actually move people, and the Danforth one does that very well, and moves a lot of people. It doesn't require a huge amount of development in order to get ridership, nor is that the main purpose of it. It already has a very successful ridership!

The suggestion that an LRT should have be built here because it would somehow spur development more is absolutely ridiculous. What spurs development is the ability to actually move around the city, and that's what the Danforth subway and future Eglinton Crosstown LRT do!

Also Mt Pleasant and Bayview near Eglinton & Davisville are incredibly sought-after streets that are walkable and built in the early 1900's like much of Queen/Dundas etc. As an architecture critic I would've thought that would be obvious to him if he's ever been there. I have no idea why he said that.

DarnDirtyApe
2014-Apr-09, 14:51
I think I get what Hume is saying - he's not seriously suggesting we build an LRT on Danforth, just pointing out the negative effects that can come from poorly thought out transit development. The subway is so good at moving people that they can't see what's in between their origin and destination! The Danforth stations are particularly bad because they are located a block north of Danforth; anyone living on the north side will never set foot on what is supposedly the main commercial strip. If the main entrance for each station was instead directly on Danforth then passengers would at least walk by the nearest storefronts on their way to and from stations. Just look at Coxwell station - you have to cut through an unmarked walkway and a parking lot if you want to get to Danforth.

It's the same thing that happened to many small towns across North American when freeways were built - all of the through traffic evaporated and ancillary businesses (restaurants, motels, gas stations) ended up relocated to the nearest freeway exit where they could be seen by passing motorists. On East Danforth it's the subway that is the major method of transportation, but businesses can't exactly set up shop in the houses surrounding a subway station.

Bayview and Mt. Pleasant are major thoroughfares for well-off drivers travelling from north Toronto to downtown. While Danforth does get a lot of through traffic, those same drivers also likely pass by Shoppers World which has ample free parking.

Mustapha
2014-Apr-28, 01:25
I went for a walk along the Danforth on Feb 22 looking for interesting old store fronts. I found a few. Thing is about the older businesses.. their days may or are already numbered.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/default%205/CSC_1424_zpsf93474d8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/default%205/DSC_1419_zps51bc44cd.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/default%205/DSC_1417_zps0744e410.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/default%205/DSC_1414_zpsb3d24072.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/JeffLow/default%205/DSC_1422_zps35cd2ea0.jpg

DarnDirtyApe
2014-May-02, 14:17
Crossroads House has been "for lease" forever, or at least the three years I've lived in the neighbourhood. Dollarama is actually new within the last year, and a nice addition to the strip. :)

GKW
2014-May-05, 15:59
fake Chanel store hoarding at 1822 Danforth Ave (likely by The Art Of Danforth arts festival)

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/fake-chanel1.jpg

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blogs-and-comment/a-chanel-beside-a-pest-control-store-fake-sign-in-east-toronto-fools-locals/

mjl08
2014-Jun-16, 16:28
The former Westminster Chapel at Dewhurst and Danforth is for sale. Perhaps another church-to-lofts development? Great location. Only a stone's throw from Donlands Station.

http://www.icx.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=14410620&PidKey=-733429621

Ex-Montreal Girl
2014-Jun-17, 17:54
The former Westminster Chapel at Dewhurst and Danforth is for sale. Perhaps another church-to-lofts development? Great location. Only a stone's throw from Donlands Station.

http://www.icx.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=14410620&PidKey=-733429621

Isn't some sort of second entrance/exit to the station supposed to pop up there somewhere? (I forget exactly.)

GKW
2014-Jun-18, 12:37
The second exit to Donlands station is planned for Strathmore Blvd and still opposed by local residents
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/19/dark-day-for-the-ttc-report-calls-transit-agency-arrogant-patronizing-with-public-over-donlands-and-greenwood-subway-exits/

nfitz
2014-Jun-20, 10:08
The second exit to Donlands station is planned for Strathmore Blvd and still opposed by local residents
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/19/dark-day-for-the-ttc-report-calls-transit-agency-arrogant-patronizing-with-public-over-donlands-and-greenwood-subway-exits/The "fresh start" that article refers to is detailed on the TTC website - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/Second_Exit_Projects/Public_Meeting_Summary_Dec3_2012.jsp where it notes that " none of the suggested locations for a Second Exit are preferred over any others. The TTC will supply the list of options that was produced previously for Second Exits, including those submitted by local residents.". A long list of potential options follows, including several on Dewhurst.

I don't think there's been anything else that's come out in the last 18 months.

GKW
2014-Jun-21, 14:57
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/Second_Exit_Projects/Public_Meeting_Summary_Dec3_2012.jsp

I think there's an error on that link:
Several participants brought it to the team’s attention that the church on Dewhurst Boulevard is up for sale, and wondered whether that could be used as a Second Exit for Greenwood Station.

I think that they mean the church could be a second exit for Donlands Station as Greenwood station is much too far away..however, I think the Dewhurst Blvd location is also too far..its a full block away, which about a 90-second walk for a young, able-bodied person and much more if you are elderly or disabled

A second exit on Danforth Ave (south side) may sound ideal, but where would it go with all the local businesses on that strip? There is a new coffee shop opening next to the station on Donlands Ave, which if it doesn't last, could be torn down for an exit if there aren't any logistic problems

nfitz
2014-Jun-22, 10:58
I think there's an error on that link ... I think that they mean the church could be a second exit for Donlands Station as Greenwood station is much too far awayYes, clearly, given that the discussion about this in the Donlands Station section and Dewhurst is west of Donlands!


..however, I think the Dewhurst Blvd location is also too far..its a full block away, which about a 90-second walk for a young, able-bodied person and much more if you are elderly or disabledIf you look at where the platforms are for Donlands station, they stretch to Dewhurst. If you were to start the staircase at the west end of the Donlands platform (similar to perhaps the stairs at the west end of the Bathurst station platform) then it would come to an entrance on Dewhurst without any extra walking. I'm not sure the concern here, it would be just a staircase from the platform to the street.

You can see the station box in page 16 of the presentation that TTC did the same day - http://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Transit_expansion_PDFs/Donlands-Greenwood_TTC_Presentation%20AP.pdf#page=16

GKW
2014-Jun-22, 17:43
Didn't know the platforms went right along underneath to the end of Strathmore Blvd...the second exit to Pape didn't seem like a huge walk away so I was judging it by that

nfitz
2014-Jun-25, 22:00
Didn't know the platforms went right along underneath to the end of Strathmore Blvd...the second exit to Pape didn't seem like a huge walk away so I was judging it by thatYes, it's interesting isn't it. Makes the idea of putting an exit on Dewhurst almost look like a no-brainer.

Though they could try something unique, and put an exit to the Danforth subway ... on Danforth. (presumably with a store-front entrance on the street, leading back through to stairs towards the back of the property, heading north to a short tunnel ... but this has been some of the controversy ... that such an entry wouldn't meet a non-existent distance standard that TTC engineering staff lied about and pulled out of their asses in an attempt to strong-arm the community in going with what the TTC wanted to do, rather than do proper community consultation.

Skeezix
2014-Jun-26, 15:52
^ I assume that there are cost implications which might preclude a second entrance on Danforth (also odd to have the main entrance on a side street, and the unstaffed second entrance on Danforth). I suspect it is cheaper to screw over one or two homeowners and expropriate their lots on a side street.

nfitz
2014-Jun-26, 22:25
^ I assume that there are cost implications which might preclude a second entrance on Danforth (also odd to have the main entrance on a side street, and the unstaffed second entrance on Danforth). I suspect it is cheaper to screw over one or two homeowners and expropriate their lots on a side street.Yes, cost would be a huge part of this. It's fine to drop $6 billion on a new subway line on Eglinton, all with multiple entrances on Eglinton, but an extra $10 million to put a single Danforth subway entrance on Danforth is fiscally impossible.

I'd assume that if you ever did an entrance like that on Danforth, you'd simply swap the primary and secondary entrances ... like they did at St. George station a few years ago. Though with the future of automated fare gates, etc., the difference between primary and secondary entrances will diminish.

Also these new "entrances" are only designed as exits. They are not building the structures large enough to have fare gates for entering.

GKW
2014-Jun-27, 16:55
There is a detached daycare at the corner of Strathmore and Donlands which could possibly work as a second exit if they bought it and renovated it...the daycare could possibly relocate next door to the church or across the street at Wilkinson school or the apartment building...

AlbertHWagstaff
2014-Jun-27, 17:22
Yes, it's interesting isn't it. Makes the idea of putting an exit on Dewhurst almost look like a no-brainer.

Though they could try something unique, and put an exit to the Danforth subway ... on Danforth. (presumably with a store-front entrance on the street, leading back through to stairs towards the back of the property, heading north to a short tunnel ... but this has been some of the controversy ... that such an entry wouldn't meet a non-existent distance standard that TTC engineering staff lied about and pulled out of their asses in an attempt to strong-arm the community in going with what the TTC wanted to do, rather than do proper community consultation.

Jane Station has something sort of like this with the walkway that leads directly from the north side of Bloor St into the station, which is maybe a little closer than some of the Danforth stations. To make the exit right on Danforth with a tunnel from the station would certainly require a passageway, and then you start getting into sewers and utilities, etc. etc. and the cost goes up, up, up.

Skeezix
2014-Oct-09, 12:36
Introducing: The Borough, a stylish new gastropub on the Danforth (http://www.torontolife.com/daily-dish/openings/2014/10/09/the-borough-toronto-restaurants/)
Toronto Life, 9 October 2014

(Danforth, roughly midway between Greenwood and Coxwell, appears to be across the street from the Wren)

nfitz
2014-Oct-09, 19:02
Introducing: The Borough, a stylish new gastropub on the Danforth (http://www.torontolife.com/daily-dish/openings/2014/10/09/the-borough-toronto-restaurants/)
Toronto Life, 9 October 2014

(Danforth, roughly midway between Greenwood and Coxwell, appears to be across the street from the Wren)

Looks to be same side (north side) of Danforth as The Wren, but about 50 m closer to Greenwood. It's not very far at all from Greenwood subway station in fact ... (which is pooly named, being over 200 metres east of Greenwood!).

The only restaurant I tend to frequent around there is El Sol, about a block further east. And Sarah's very occasionally. One day when the kids are older ...

King of Kensington
2014-Oct-23, 09:17
Urbanist Jane Jacobs may never have written about the East Danforth, but after a few long walks on a Toronto strip that was in decline for much of the latter 20th century, she had some pretty firm views on what is needed for revitalization.

http://worldwidewickens.com/?p=756